Turkey is again attempting to order Sweden around.
NATO’s big mistake was to embrace Turkey as a member in the first place.
Considering its Ottoman history, it was obvious that Turkey was a risky partner for NATO to begin with. Turkey made the historic choice of siding with the free world in World War II for its own benefit. In 1950, “Turkey dispatched its troops to support U.S. and United Nations forces repelling North Korea’s attempted invasion of the southern part of the peninsula, an action that won enduring praise from the West.” That’s where it should have stopped. Turkey may have been a valuable ally at the time NATO was formed, but even so, to make it a full member of the alliance was imprudent.
The basic conditions for Islamic supremacist Erdogan to green-light Sweden (or any other country) for NATO membership are:
1. No Qur’an burnings or open blasphemy to Islam;
2. No support for Kurds.
Those conditions disqualify Sweden, in Turkey’s view.
Erdogan’s priority obviously isn’t the interests of NATO. After all, Turkey “has nothing that contradicts” Taliban beliefs, an indication of just how far Turkey’s values are from those of NATO.
“Erdoğan tells NATO Sweden must stop Kurdish protests: report,” Turkish Minute, June 26, 2023:
Sweden must stop protests by supporters of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) in Stockholm to get a green light for its NATO membership bid, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan told NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in a phone call on Sunday, Reuters reported.
Erdoğan told Stoltenberg that Turkey had a constructive attitude but that Sweden’s change of terrorism laws to meet demands from Ankara was “meaningless” while PKK supporters hold protests in the country, the Turkish presidency said in a statement.
Turkey has objected to Sweden’s bid to join the Western military alliance, citing security concerns, but members of the bloc and the NATO chief have expressed hope that it will become a member in time for a mid-July summit in Vilnius……
Chandana Chjowdhury says
The moment an Islamic country joins – trouble begins!!
Jack Reynolds says
Turkey should never have been accepted as a NATO member. It is long past the time to give them the boot.
somehistory says
This slimy mozlum dictator should be told to take a long walk on a short pier. Preferably one that extends over shark-infested waters.
He has been attempting to dictate to the whole world for sometime. He has been allowed some power, and he wants a whole lot more.
࿗Infidel࿘ says
If NATO is to remain relevant, they need to do 2 things:
‣ Admit Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Georgia and Armenia into it
‣ Expel Turkey, and shut down Incirlik
The first one would probably end the Russo-Ukraine war, and make the Kremlin less paranoid about NATO expansion. It would also give NATO a role to play against China, a role that is currently geographically irrelevant
GreekEmpress says
Totally concur, Infidel
Especially Armenia
John Smith says
Spot on Infidel, you see things that others don’t
gravenimage says
Infidel, I don’t think that welcoming Russia invading Ukraine would actually be a good move for NATO. In fact, Finland and Sweden decided to join NATO after all these years *because* Russia invaded Ukraine.
How would allowing Russia to join NATO end the invasion of Ukraine–unless NATO announced that Ukraine no longer existed and now belonged to Russia? I don’t think that validating this aggression would help.
I *do* wish there were a mechanism for expelling Turkey, though.
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Graven
The reason Russia invaded Ukraine, & has been opposed to Ukraine being in NATO is the perception that NATO has replaced the Soviet Union w/ Russia as its leading adversary. This was only confirmed when the West declined to admit Russia into NATO in the 90s, even while it was welcoming all other former Warsaw Pact countries into NATO
Admitting Russia into NATO (as well as ending the cancellation of all things Russian that the West had started since last year) would provide the Kremlin the off-ramp that it would welcome to end the war w/o a loss of face: they could, credibly, claim that the threat to them from NATO no longer existed since they’ve been allowed back in the club. It would also end the propaganda narrative that NATO exists only to destabilize Russia and its traditional allies, such as Serbia (which was treated horribly in the 90s). But most importantly, it would end Russia’s status as a vassal of Beijing, which right now is the #1 threat to the world, particularly if China and Russia are allies. I’d rather have Beijing pocket the OIC rather than Russia: the latter gives it a military edge over the free world that the former doesn’t
If Russia and its neighbors that I listed were admitted into NATO, not only would Russia lose its reasons to invade them, but it would then have to bilaterally resolve issues w/ countries like Georgia and Ukraine, and NATO then could even be a negotiating platform. I daresay it would have better luck negotiating b/w Moscow and Kiev, or Moscow and Tbilisi, than it has had b/w Athens and Ankara
PMK says
Infidel,
Why do you think Russia even wants to be in NATO? Putin expected to be ‘invited’ to join NATO. He was told NATO didn’t do that. Countries had to apply. Putin said Russia wouldn’t stand in line with countries that ‘don’t matter’. When he annexed Crimea, he said Russia was ‘humiliated by NATO expansion eastward after the fall of Communism’. Putin thinks the breakup of the USSR was the greatest tragedy in Russian history. At the time he invaded, Ukraine was still years, if not decades, away from NATO membership. Putin would reconstitute the Soviet Union, if he could. He launched wars in Georgia and Ukraine. He has nukes, more than any other country. He has visions of recreating the Russian Empire. As long as Putin rules, not even NATO membership would make Russia a good neighbor.
Jack Reynolds says
Hey Dumb-Dumb
.
The old USSR had located 10,000 of its 30,000 Nukes in Ukraine, knowing those locations would be attacked first.
.
While the USSR was able to collect many of those 10,000 Nukes it never succeeded in getting all of them. Ukraine needs very few to meet its self-defence needs.
.
PUTIN IS F*CKED !!!
.
S says
Lets not forget Russia has a huge amount of rebuilding to do before they get into the western club.
Those idiots have to pay for all the buildings they demolished, roads & bridges, refugee financial support they have to pay back,, liives they need to rebuild ..
The West isn’t going to say “bad Russia, don’t do that again,,,” and go back to supplying all the western toys, all of it needs to be paid back, financed with reduced price oil & gas, plus they’ll be under the Russian people’s requirement to reinstate their technology and infrastructer
financially, Russia has dug a hole that will take 3 or 4 decades to trade out of ..
John Smith says
NATO was formed solely as a deterrent to Russian expansion. The Soviet Union doesn’t exist anymore, yet NATO is still encroaching Russia’s borders.
Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991. according to many declassified documents. But they went back on their word and stabbed Russia in the back. It’s okay for NATO to say “we’re a peaceful alliance and pose no threat to Russia.”
NATO’s largest nuclear arsenal outside of the US is still deployed in Turkey, so why should the Russians believe them when they say, “they pose no threat”, to Russia they are a major threat.
Western leaders have a lot to answer here.
࿗Infidel࿘ says
PMK
Russia did try to join NATO in the 90s, but got rebuffed. Putin wasn’t in power then: Yeltsin was. The moves that NATO made against Serbia, particularly wrt Kosovo, soured relations b/w NATO and the Kremlin, and in this case, the fault wasn’t w/ the Kremlin, nor even Belgrade
The reason he attacked Crimea is that it’s the center of the Black Sea Fleet, which is still Russia’s, but if Ukraine joined NATO, Russia would lose that base. Besides, Ukraine having NATO troops would be akin to Cuba having Soviet missiles, although today, the Bidens don’t seem to care that there are Chicom listening posts in Cuba
If Putin wants to re-create the Russian empire, why isn’t he acting against, say, Kazakhstan, where he’d have much more to gain? Kazakhstan has been Kazakhifying its northern region, which actually was ethnic Russian, not Kazakh. In fact, the -stans are more likely to become a part of a pan-Turkic empire than a neo-Russian one. I doubt that Russia can ever get them back, and w/o them, even if they annexed Ukraine & Belarus, it wouldn’t be much of an addition to them
The reason he stated that he regretted the breakup of the Soviet Union was the number of ethnic Russians, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Azeris, Ukrainians left in different republics who now had to relocate back to their ethnic countries, which is a pretty major move
born saturday says
the islamofascist organisers of the muslims invasion of europe and responsible for the terrorism in africa europe and elsewhere in the world on behalf of the rich gulf states have a lot to speak about terrorism against them….
they teach practise organise promote fund and support in many ways terrorism themselves, but faithful hitler allies they use the gebels method accusing others for what THEY do….
they will never get what they deserve so long as the rich gulf states who fund them remain unpunished….
born saturday says
as for the side of turkey in ww2… turkey was always a closest ally of germany… in ww2 the turkish stance was formally neutral, but the turks sided with nazi germany in economic affairs merchentasing and much more so even though they formally had a neutral stance they aided nazi germanyas it seemed it would win the war… that was up untill nazi germany lost the war with the soviets and the nazi collapse was starting… only then, the traditionally closest ally of germany timelessly, sided with the coalition of the british americans against nazi germany to avoid a backlass as a neutral or nazi friendly country….
the turks, always ready for making acrobatics to make sure they are on the winning side of the ww2, just like what they are doing now with the war in ukraine…. both with russia and ukraine… untill they make sure who is winning the ww3 then side with the winning side before the end of the war…. if the war is won from russia they have the chance to side with them before its all over… if the war is won by the west they will do the same when they are sure and on each case they will be the winners because they will have no sanction from a winning side…..
this is what people who have studdied turkey for ages say in greece, but also historians…. as for the russia turkey relation anyone who is informed know it well…
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Yeah, I think that the reason that Turkey (smartly) stayed neutral in WWII was that they were caught b/w the Nazis and the Soviets. Whatever one might think of them in other contexts, I do think that given their neighborhood, they played this one absolutely right
Also, right now, Turkey is anything but an ally of the West when it comes to Russia, although they did play a positive role in trying to mediate b/w Moscow and Kyiv. In fact, they are right now more on the Chicom side than the US side when it comes to geopolitics in the East Mediterranean
gravenimage says
Turkey tells NATO Secretary General that Sweden must stop Kurdish protests
Turkey is again attempting to order Sweden around.
NATO’s big mistake was to embrace Turkey as a member in the first place.
………………………………………………
Yes–Turkey never should have been allowed to join NATO. Now they are trying to hold Sweden hostage.
࿗Infidel࿘ says
During the Cold War, there was at least the argument that Turkey was ostensibly secular, although its treatment of Armenians and Greeks was abominable. However, after it declined to support the US during Operation Desert Shield, it should have been shown out of NATO
gravenimage says
There are lots of reasons why Turkey should be kicked out of NATO–I’m not sure this is one of them. This US operation was not a NATO operation, and not all NATO members supported it.
Burnaby Lad says
Erdogan has a move, Kurd women will piss on his grave standing up is my guess.
Holy Maduha-Ncube says
Strange thar the Western Alliance is being held hostage by rabid, west hating, self confessed Islamic sunni terrorist and Russian arms buyer..Sweden is not a province of Turkey and Sweden should not give in to this Islamic terroristic blackmail!!
gravenimage says
+1
James Lincoln says
According to the feature article:
“The basic conditions for Islamic supremacist Erdogan to green-light Sweden (or any other country) for NATO membership are:
1. No Qur’an burnings or open blasphemy to Islam
2. No support for Kurds.”
Question for Erdogan: would you also recommend that this be enforced against countries that are ALREADY in NATO?
gravenimage says
I’m sure Erdogan would love it if he could do it.
Jack Reynolds says
Turkey is the weakest link in NATO and it would be better off without it.
OLD GUY says
Erdogan is turning Turkey into an islamic hell hole. Sweden should be allowed to join NATO and maybe NATO needs to take a hard look at Turkeys role in NATO.
davidafoot says
Moslem countries are just like moslem people
“The mosques are our barracks,
the domes our helmets,
the minarets our bayonets,
and the believers our soldiers.”
-Recep Tayyip Erdogan
Jack Reynolds says
Sooo … Is it time for another Crusade yet ???
.
gravenimage says
The reason Russia invaded Ukraine, & has been opposed to Ukraine being in NATO is the perception that NATO has replaced the Soviet Union w/ Russia as its leading adversary. This was only confirmed when the West declined to admit Russia into NATO in the 90s, even while it was welcoming all other former Warsaw Pact countries into NATO
………………………………………..
Well, yes, Infidel–most of eastern Europe had been brutally occupied by the Soviet Union for almost half a century, and none of these nations wanted to go through this again. These “Warsaw Pact” nations didn’t want to suffer more of the same.
Russia could have proven it was nothing like the Soviet Union by *not* invading its neighbors–instead, they invaded Georgia and Ukraine, and are trying to take eastern Moldova.
But Ukraine was not poised to join NATO in any case. The fact is that Russia never would have invaded them if they *had* been able to join NATO. Russia has never invaded a NATO nation.
Then, Russia has had a border with NATO nations for decades–the Baltic States. The Baltic States have never threatened Russia.
More:
Admitting Russia into NATO (as well as ending the cancellation of all things Russian that the West had started since last year) would provide the Kremlin the off-ramp that it would welcome to end the war w/o a loss of face: they could, credibly, claim that the threat to them from NATO no longer existed since they’ve been allowed back in the club.
………………………………………..
Again, NATO has never threatened Russia. Then, the idea that the invasion of Ukraine should be ignored and Russia rewarded with withdrawing sanctions so that they can “save face” is bizarre. I note that you do not care about Ukraine saving face–just the aggressor.
In that case, why not reward Jihadists for their attacks on others? Generally appeasement of aggression doesn’t work. We saw how well appeasing Hitler worked…
And the claim that Russia’s being accepted into NATO would mean its “being allowed back into the club” makes no sense–Russia was *never* a member of NATO.
Ukraine was not poised to join NATO, in any case. Russia has given over a dozen excuses for having invaded Ukraine, and most of these have nothing to do with NATO.
Why would Russia leave Ukraine, when they have claimed things like Ukraine not existing and Putin’s being the new Peter the Great?
More:
It would also end the propaganda narrative that NATO exists only to destabilize Russia and its traditional allies, such as Serbia (which was treated horribly in the 90s).
………………………………………..
NATO is a defensive alliance–it defends against *any* threat–if Russia wants to be the main threat, that is their own choice. Then, NATO would have to bring Russia in as a dictatorship–Russia would never at this point meet any of NATO’s standards.
Of course, neither would Turkey–but sadly at this point this is a done deal.
Russia talked previously about joining NATO as a way to threaten its neighbors–how would this change now, when they are in the middle of invading a neighboring nation and murdering her people?
More:
But most importantly, it would end Russia’s status as a vassal of Beijing, which right now is the #1 threat to the world, particularly if China and Russia are allies. I’d rather have Beijing pocket the OIC rather than Russia: the latter gives it a military edge over the free world that the former doesn’t
………………………………………..
Russia has made much about BRICS–I don’t think this would change if it was bribed with a NATO membership.
More:
If Russia and its neighbors that I listed were admitted into NATO, not only would Russia lose its reasons to invade them, but it would then have to bilaterally resolve issues w/ countries like Georgia and Ukraine, and NATO then could even be a negotiating platform. I daresay it would have better luck negotiating b/w Moscow and Kiev, or Moscow and Tbilisi, than it has had b/w Athens and Ankara
………………………………………..
Russia’s “issues” with Georgia and Ukraine is that they exist as independent nations–that is not apt to change, unless Russia succeeds in conquering them.
How much land do you think that Georgia and Ukraine should have to cede to Russia? And how long before they demand more?
And phantom NATO membership is *not* the only excuse Russia has used for invading Ukraine–in just the past few months Russia has said that 1) They don’t intend to invade Ukraine. They said this until just a few days before they invaded. 2) They have to invade because Ukrainians are Nazis. Note that Lavrov has said that any Ukrainian who favors independence is a “Nazi”. 3) They have to defend Donbas. 4) That Ukrainian biolabs have invented viruses that target Russians and not Ukrainians, even though many of them are genetically identical. 5) That Ukraine was joining the EU, and that this is unacceptable to Russia. Never mind that Ukraine would not have been joining the EU any time soon, nor that if they do it is not Russia’s business. 6) That Ukraine somehow presented a threat to Russia. 7) That Ukraine has always been part of Russia. 8) That Ukraine does not exist. 9) That Ukrainian President Zelensky is a drug addict. (This is my personal “favorite”). That all Ukrainians worship Satan. 11) That Putin is the new Peter the Great, and that the conquest of Ukraine is the first step towards realizing this. There are probably other excuses.
Then, if Russia were *really* just concerned about countries joining NATO, their invasion of Ukraine has failed miserably. Finland and Sweden have since applied to join NATO, and Finland has been accepted, more than doubling NATO’s border with Russia.
Why hasn’t Russia invaded Finland? Because they don’t want to tangle with NATO.
And as soon as Erdogan gets through trying to blackmail Sweden, they will no doubt join as well.