Recently I was interviewed about the persecution by Catholic bishops of Catholic priests who enunciate unpopular truths about Islam.
“Leave them; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:14)
“Islamic Expert: US Bishops Complicit in Muslim Persecution of Christians,” by Anita Carey, ChurchMilitant.com, May 8, 2017:
DETROIT (ChurchMiltant.com) – A prominent Islamic expert is comparing the bishops’ silence on terrorism to sex abuse cover-up. Robert Spencer, an Islamic terror expert and author of 16 books on Islam, released an editorial Sunday excoriating the U.S. bishops’ actions to punish clergy and schoolteachers who speak out against Islam, including Spencer himself.
“The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops moves actively and swiftly to silence and demonize voices that tell the truth about the Muslim persecution of Christians,” Spencer noted, naming various bishops who’ve refused him, as well as other Muslim critics, a platform in their dioceses.
“You can reject every element of the Nicene Creed and everything the Church teaches, and still the U.S. Catholic Bishops will consider you a Catholic in good standing,” he continued. “But if you believe that Islam is not a religion of peace, you have no place in the U.S. Catholic Church.”
Church Militant spoke with Spencer on his thoughts regarding the reasons why the U.S. bishops are so reluctant to speak out against the evil of Islam.
CM: At what point do you think the bishops started to pander to a politically correct agenda?
RS: This is an outgrowth of the confusion that overtook the Church in the wake of Vatican II, and the popular but erroneous idea among liberal Catholics that the Church had discarded its tradition and dogmas and essentially embraced the leftist agenda. This idea took root in earnest in the 1960s, but began germinating long before that.
CM: Knowing the historical conflicts between Islam and Christianity, why would the bishops be so quick and severe toward those who are informing the laity? Why would they want the laity ignorant?
RS: This mystifies me, but my best assessment is that this is an outgrowth of the spirit of Vatican II, which called upon Muslims and Christians to set aside ancient antagonisms and find common ground. There is a general assumption among the bishops that just as Christianity has changed since the time of the Crusades, so also has Islam, and dialog will iron out any remaining differences.
In reality, this is an unfounded assumption, as Islamic teaching has not changed, and still contains an imperative to wage war against Christians and subjugate them under the rule of Islamic law. I would expect that most bishops, however, would dismiss the idea that Islamic teaching contains such an imperative as an “Orientalist” and “Islamophobic” false claim. They, however, are the ones who are ignorant.
CM: What do you think the bishops’ problem is with your talks and position on Islam?
RS: I’m told that Bp. Nicholas Samra believes that I am “spreading hate,” and since I was a member of his diocese, he himself told me that many bishops had approached him at the USCCB conference telling him that he had to “do something” about me. They apparently believe that I am harming the dialog they are conducting with Muslims, and they apparently also think that this dialog is producing results, even though Muslim persecution of Christians has increased exponentially since it began.
For my part, I reject the charge that I am spreading hate, and challenge Samra or any other bishop to quote a single hateful statement from my work. I am exposing facts that many would prefer to keep concealed; the “hate” charge is simply an attempt to make people of good will turn against my work.
CM: If the bishops do start to speak out against Islam, will it make Christian persecution worse or start an all-out war?
RS: In Islamic law, Christians must live in subservience and submission to Islamic law. If they speak out about their plight, it will get even worse for them, and their lives could be forfeit. Thus they generally adopt an attitude of publicly praising and siding with those who persecute them, so that it won’t get even worse for them. This is the attitude that the bishops now appear to have adopted as well: Samra himself told me that I shouldn’t speak out against Muslim persecution of Christians, as doing so would only make matters worse for Middle-Eastern Christians.
While I am aware of that possibility, at the same time to dissimulate about the nature and magnitude of that persecution only misleads Christians outside the Middle East into complacency. It also just validates and reinforces violent intimidation. It is incumbent upon the bishops as messengers of the truth to tell the whole truth about what is happening to the Christians of the Middle East, and to reject a submission to Islamic intimidation that would condemn our children and our children’s children to slavery. To accept that intimidation and lie or remain silent because of it is only to encourage more such intimidation. They could speak out while working to ensure that the United States and other powers do everything they can to protect the remaining Christians in the Middle East from further persecution.
CM: What can the faithful do to influence the bishops or fight back against the liberal media?
RS: Call them to tell the truth. When they issue statements about Islam that are dishonest and misleading, challenge them. I have been severely criticized for criticizing bishops. Many Catholics seem to think that to do so is disloyal to the Church. On the contrary, I believe that not to call out bishops when they are sinful and wrong is even more disloyal to the Church. It is the kind of thinking that led to the pedophilia scandals.
mortimer says
By pretending that there is no JIHAD-WARFARE against Christians and by denying the jihad-inflicted deaths of 60 million Christians, the princes of the RCC have committed MORTAL SINS!
The princes of the RCC have a MORAL DUTY to TELL THE TRUTH about the JIHAD AGAINST CHRISTIANS.
By CONSTANTLY telling so many lies about the ISLAMIC WAR against Christianity and Christians, the princes of the RCC are LIVING IN SIN.
Since they are LIVING IN SIN and CONSTANTLY LIVING AS UNREPENTANT LIARS, the princes of the RCC should be EX-COMMUNICATED until they repent.
pfwag says
According to the RCC Catechism, they worship the same god and Muslims and Catholics are brothers.
mortimer says
The catechism you refer to QUOTES DHIMMI THEOLOGY. The ‘Abrahamic religions’ claim is fallacious. The supposed commonality is concocted. The ETERNAL name of the Deity in the Old Testament is ‘YHWH’ and it appears almost 7,000 times. However, the deity of the Koran has totally FORGOTTEN his ETERNAL name and it does not appear ONE TIME in the Koran. ‘Allah’ is thus either a forgetful god (and not believable) or a different god from ‘YHWH’ since he uses a different name from his ETERNAL name.
MSW says
allah is not God. allah is a pagan stone moon deity, nothing more.
It’s broadly pronounced as Jehovah, but Jove, or Jar are used.
gravenimage says
True, Mortimer.
James says
The claim is garbage. And so is that part of the V2 document it comes from. The Muslim allah has some metaphysical qualities in common with the True God, but in character they are vastly unlike.
gravenimage says
Who would excommunicate them now? The current pope is just about as bad.
mortimer says
The bishops and cardinals should start telling the truth about the persecution …
-of the top ten worst countries for Christians, NINE ARE ISLAMIC
•Approximately 215 million Christians experience high, very high, or extreme persecution.
•The most VIOLENT : Pakistan, which rose to No. 4 on the list for a level of violence “exceeding even northern NIGERIA.” (a Muslim region)
•The killings of Christians in Nigeria saw an increase of more than 62 percent. (2,000 killed every year)
•The worst increase: MUSLIM MALI, which moved up the most places on the list from No. 44 to No. 32.
The bishops and cardinals have a duty to tell the truth.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Mortimer. They have a *moral* duty to tell the truth.
James says
They are too afraid to do so. They care more for a false and harmful ecumenism than for honesty and truth. They would have to admit their own bad stewardship, and that they had followed the bad example of other clueless Popes and bishops. It will take a miracle for them to man up and ‘fess up.
no_one says
The are excommunicated long time ago by the true ancient church. RCC is a fake.
Jim says
Mortimer, God has blessed you, but I say God Bless you sir! You are doing a wonderful job with your comments! And Robert Spenser, too! You RS, are not just fighting the evil of islam, you are a soldier for THE LORD! However, you say above, “RS: This mystifies me, but my best assessment is”–Do not be mystified, the reason is 2 Thessalonians 2, 11-12. “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
laura ann says
Certain liberal protestant churches likewise, apostasy has taken over most churches today. Catholics fought the Crusades hundreds years back, seem to have a mental block. Could also be getting large donations from wealthy Muslim leaders to keep silent.
gravenimage says
I think they–like so many in the West–desperately want to believe that Islam is not a danger.
But this does not mean that they are not letting their flock and savvier fellow Catholics down.
Judy says
Trying to save themselves from when they take over? 🙂
Nora Marginean says
This is not shocking to me, this church has persecuted Christians for hundreds of years now. She never changes ( the beast).
gravenimage says
Actually, Catholics stood up against the scourge of Islam for hundreds of years–at Poitiers, at Le Panto, and at the Gates of Vienna.
pfwag says
The RCC has been persecuting Jews and people who tell the truth for about 1500 years.
Diane Harvey says
Unam Sanctam (Bonifice VIII, 1302) ends, “Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
Pope Frank and his bishops believe that..
Muslims of course don’t; they act accordingly to their own lights as informed by their sources documents, the Quran, the Hadiths, the Sira.
Who should we believe,about why Muslims think and behave as they do, a misinformed “Roman Pontiff” and his equally misinformed bishops, or Muslims themselves?
mortimer says
A misinformed and a disinforming pope is harmful to everyone, including himself.
As more Roman Catholics learn the JIHAD DOCTRINE and the TAQIYYA DOCTRINE, they will realize that Frank is OUT TO LUNCH.
It is EASY TO LEARN about Islam. Frank has MANY clergy (Jesuits, even) who are learned and STUDIED in the matter of Islam.
FRANK IS CULPABLY NEGLIGENT for not learning the JIHAD DOCTRINE, the DUALISM DOCTRINE and the TAQIYYA DOCTRINE of Islam.
JIMJFOX says
Frank KNOWS. He is nothing more or less than the RCC equivalent of Obama.
Lionel Andrades says
Unam Sanctam assumes the baptism of desire and blood and being saved in invincible ignorance are explicit and they are objective exceptions to all needing to be formal members of the Church for salvation. So he contradicts himself. This is the new theology which he uses.
So instead of affirming the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Vatican Council II with the theology of Feeneyism he uses irrrational Cushingism.He’s a liberal on this issue.
Wellington says
Just for the record, Diane, Boniface VIII was already a political anachronism by the time the encyclical, Unam Sancatam, was published, which has to be seen in this light and thus as insupportable overreach by Boniface in the political realm. King Philip IV of France, as you might know, certainly saw to that, to put it mildly. Just for the record——-and all that.
Wellington says
Sorry, that’s Unam Sanctam and not Unam Sancatam. While my Latin is a little rusty, it isn’t this rusty and so I plead only a typo and not a bastardization of a great language.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
mortimer says
We need a corrections feature in this software to fix typos that occur in a moment of blowing off steam! I don’t know about others, but my blood pressure goes up constantly when I read jihadwatch articles. Thank you, Mr. Spencer and staff for your fine, necessary work. Please keep raising our blood pressure!
Jeanette says
Mortimer,
We do indeed need an option to edit. And it would be very helpful if our comments didn’t appear in very small, medium gray print, on a light gray background.
It’s hard to read, and sometimes errors that spellcheck doesn’t underline are easy to miss.
gravenimage says
Mortimer and Jeanette, we did indeed have an edit function back in the “Intense Debate” era.
But apparently this system was not as secure–that is, easier to hack–and it eventually broke down entirely under the large volume of comments here at JW.
I miss the edit function, as well–despite my having worked as an editor and proofreader I’ve had some damn embarrassing typos get by me, especially when I am posting quickly.
But this seems to be the best system under the circumstances, and at least we can reply directly to other comments. We could not do that under the old TypePad System, so on long threads you had to scroll back–and back and back, sometimes–in order to find the post being referred to.
James says
If this site were about Catholicism, and not about Islam, I for one would be only too happy to defend Unam Sanctam. But this site is not about Catholicism.
Bill says
Jorge Mario Bergoglio is a Communist. For decades, the Church leadership has been cultivating Communist/Socialist adherents through their selection and education process. Do not be surprised then to find that Catholics, including Catholic clerics, are being silenced for their independent inquiry and speech relating to Islam. Shutting down free speech and inquiry is one of the very first things that Communists do everywhere they work or force their way into power. The Church is no different and nor is it immune from such depredations. In fact, the undemocratic structure of Church power makes it the ideal breeding ground.
No one should be surprised. Eventually, expression of dissent to Jorge Mario Bergoglio will result in excommunication. When that day comes, I will consider a badge of honor.
common sense says
Two thumbs up.
E.L.O says
The Father Gabriele Amorth told us that there are a bunch of Demons inside Christian Churches !
mortimer says
And I will name two of those ‘DEMONS’ … ‘Liberation Theology and Dhimmi Theology’.
James says
There is no justification for calling the Pope a Communist. That he does things one might not agree with, in no way makes him anything but a Catholic, and a legitimate Pope.
common sense says
I whole heartedly agree with Robert’s final answer. We must always respectfully challenge, which according to the article leaves me, a cradle Catholic “no place in the church.” Crazy.
This pope is not the first to be called an anti-Christ and when I look at the vatican in 1939 with the rise of Mussolini and the Nazis I can easily see how this assertion comes into play in today’s struggle with Islam. This is very strange, for people not to see an obvious correlation and actual appeasement if not all out submission. I believe the Cathars as they were known declared pope (innocent III?) the anti-christ. Martin Luther may have made this claim as well?
The Papacy looks to be in full-blown apostasy for allowing a pagan death cult to come into the good graces of the church that is suppossed to be represent Jesus and confirm us to God and even more strange did so many good things for me teaching me about Jesus’ ways. Islam as well known is the same as when it was originated by its blood soaked prophet/warrior, raping paedophile Mo.
Anti=”in place of”, anything you put in place of Christian charity, peace and Jesus only can go the opposite way.
This pope and all these Bishops are placing Islam on equal footing with Christ which by definition as taught to me by THEM makes the pope and all dhimmi’s Anti-Christ. I’m in the twilight zone.
mortimer says
Pope Frank is ARROGANT and HAUGHTY on the matter of Islam. Though he is UNFAMILIAR with the primary source texts of Islam and may not even know the NAMES of those books, he PREPOSTEROUSLY presents himself as an authority on Islam.
Frank is culpably CLUELESS about basic Islamic doctrines: the taqiyya doctrine, jihad doctrine, dhimmi doctrine, persecution/humiliation doctrine, the supremacism doctrine, and the Islamic blasphemy doctrine. These doctrine are of VITAL IMPORTANCE respecting the treatment of the church by Muslims.
He is not prepared to deal with Islam … it’s like a tweety bird going against a tank. All Muslim clerics have doctorates in TAQIYYA.
Lionel Andrades says
MAY 4, 2017
Mark Smythe may not know : with Feeneyite Vatican Council II,extra ecclesiam nulla salus all Muslims, Jews are on the way to Hell with no known exceptions in 2017 : Blessed Trinity Catholic School issue
Image result for Mark Smythe Photo Orlando School IslamMark Smythe, the sixth-grade religion and social studies teacher at Blessed Trinity Catholic School in the Orlando diocese,Florida,USA may not know that Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Feeneyite).So according to Vatican Council II and extra ecclesiam nulla salus all Muslims, Jews and other non Catholics are on the way to Hell in 2017 and there are no known exceptions.This is the official teaching of the Catholic Church according to magisterial documents interpreted with the theology of Feeneyism.
According to Church Militant TV the Florida teacher was reprimanded for providing the writings of St. John Bosco to his religion class and may lose his job over the incident.
Back in February, Mark Smythe, a sixth-grade religion and social studies teacher at Blessed Trinity Catholic School in the Orlanod diocese, was praying in the church during eucharistic adoration when he noticed a pamphlet containing St. John Bosco’s book The Catholic Educated in His Religion. Realizing he had to prepare a history lesson on Islam for class, he copied the pamphlet and handed it out to his students. A parent of a student eventually shared a copy with a Muslim friend.1
Church Militant TV itself does not interpret Vatican Council II and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus with Feeneyism.Neither does the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Vatican.So for them theologically there would be known salvation outside the Church and so there would be exceptions to the dogma on salvation.So it could not be said, theologically according to them, that all Muslims and other non Catholics are oriented to Hell in the present times unless they become members of the Catholic Church.
For the Jewish Left, which supports Satanic values and hates the Catholic Church,affirming Vatican Council II ( Feeneyite) could be hate.So also extra ecclesiam nulla salus ( Feeneyite) and all the catechisms interpreted with the theology of Feeneyism( invisible cases are invisible and there is no visible baptism of desire to contradict EENS).
Presently the magisterium does not use traditional Feeneyism to interpret the Nicene Creed. So the Nicene Creed, the dogma EENS, Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents are interpreted with the irrational Cushingite theology( invisible cases are physically visible, the baptism of desire is a visible exception to traditional EENS).
It is only with Cushingism that traditional Catholic teachings change.They meet the requirements of the enemies of the Church. The Blessed Trinity Catholic School in Orlando would be wrongly interpreting Vatican Council II with Cushingism.This would be prudent for them.
Image result for Mark Smythe Photo Orlando School Islam
Otherwise the school would be saying that all Muslims are on the way to Hell and Vatican Council II is in agreement with St.John Bosco.The ecclesiology of the Church before and after Vatican Council II with the theology of Feenyism is the same.
Presently Mark Smythe is affirming the official Catholic faith according to magisterial documents interpreted with a rational theology. While it is the USCCB and the two popes who are not affirming Catholic magisterial documents with a rational theology.The Catholic diocese of Orlando is also politically correct with the Left’s hate laws.The political Left does not encourage freedom of religion and worship for Catholics.
Image result for Mark Smythe Photo Orlando School Islam
Church Militant TV is prudent and expedient on this theological issue and will not inform Mark Smythe how he can accept and affirm Vatican Council II in line with the saints, on Islamism.-Lionel Andrades
1.https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/fl-teacher-may-lose-his-job-over-writings-of-st.-john-bosco
May 4, 2017
Catholic Teacher May Lose Job for Saints’ Writings Critical of Islam
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/05/catholic-teacher-may-lose-job-for.html
gravenimage says
Why are you ranting about Jews?
You are aware that civilized Jewish people–unlike Muslims–are not violently targeting Christians. aren’t you?
Or do you care?
Lionel Andrades says
MAY 10, 2017
U.S bishops do not affirm Vatican Council II( Feeneyite) on Islam and neither do Robert Spencer and Church Militant TV
Image result for Photo of Robert Spencer with Michael Voris CHURCH MILITANT TV Church Militant TV did not ask Robert Spencer in their interview,if Vatican Council II can be interpreted with Feeneyism instead of the Cushingism; the Cushingiye interpretation of the USCCB bishops.Then it could be said that Vatican Council II says all need faith and baptism for salvation(Ad Gentes 7).So Muslims are on the way to Hell unless they convert formally into the Church( with faith and baptism). This would mean the Catholic Church in its magisterial documents ( Vatican Council II( AG 7), Catechism of the Catholic Church(CCC 1257,845, 846 etc), Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441 etc) is saying the ordinary means of salvation is faith and baptism and so Mohammad is in Hell.He did not enter the Church even though he had an opportunity and he knew about Jesus and the Church.
Image result for Photo of Vatican Council IIImage result for Photo of Vatican Council II
For Catholics in pre and post Vatican Council II times Mohammad did not choose the ordinary means of salvation.
The ordinary means of salvation is not invincible ignorance or a good conscience. It is not ‘good and holy things in other religions'(NA 2) or ‘elements of sanctification and truth'(LG 8) in other religions.These are hypothetical possibilities known only to God and they would be followed with the baptism of water in the Catholic Church.Since this has been the dogmatic teaching for centuries.
Image result for Photo of Robert Spencer with Michael Voris CHURCH MILITANT TV
There are no practical exceptions to Ad Gentes 7(all need faith and baptism for salvation) and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus’ exclusivist ecclesiology. We do not know any one in 2017 who will be saved outside the Church, we cannot know any one who will be saved without Catholic faith, which includes the Sacraments and the faith and moral teachings of the Church.
Church Militant TV, the Sacred Heart Seminary in Detroit, the Archbishop of Detroit and the Archdiocese Religious Education department, all, interpret Vatican Council II with irrational Cushingism.They use a false premise to interpret the Council.So the conclusion is a rupture with Tradition. However without the false premise which is invisible cases are visible, the baptism of desire refers to visible people, there are personally known and seen cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church etc- Vatican Council II is in harmony with St. John Bosco’s description of Hell.
Image result for Photo of Robert Spencer with Michael Voris CHURCH MILITANT TV
The U.S bishops do not affirm Vatican Council II( Feeneyite) on Islam and neither do Robert Spencer and Church Militant TV.
Robert Spencer could simply say all Muslims need to enter the Church with faith and baptism in 2017 to avoid the fires of Hell according to Vatican Council II and there are no exceptions mentioned in the Council text and nor are there any practical exceptions in 2017.
Similarly Michael Voris could announce that there are no practical exceptions mentioned in Vatican Council II to the dogma outside the Church there is no salvation, as it was known to the missionaries in the 16th century.We do not know any one today who does not need to enter the Church for salvation.We cannot see any one saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) and without the baptism of water in the Catholic Church. So LG 16 is not an exception to the traditional ecclesiology of the Catholic Church.
-Lionel Andrades
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/05/us-bishops-do-not-affirm-vatican.html
Kepha says
Feeneyism and Cushingism? So Vatican II was talking out of both sides of the mouth?
Lionel Andrades says
No.
But you can interpret Vatican Council II with Feeneyism or Cushingism and the conclusion would be different.This is a secret a king of trick that people don’t know about.
For example if Lumen Gentium 16( invincible ignorance/ a good conscience) refers to a visible and known person saved as such in 2017 then LG 16 is an exception to the old interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It means there is salvation outside the Church.
If LG 16 refers to an invisible person -and it is really a hypothetical case, then LG 16 does not contradict the dogma on exclusive salvation, as it was known for example in the 16th century.
For if LG 16 refers to a visible person there is a conclusion which is a rupture with Tradition( the dogma on salvation, Syllabus of Errors etc).
But if LG 16 refers to an invisihle person then being saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire etc were always irrelevant to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
I read the same Vatican Council II as you do. I read with the rational philosophy and theology.So there is nothing in Vatican Council II to contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says all Jews, Protestants and Orthodox Christians and other non Cathoics need to formally enter the Catholic Church, they need to be members to avoid the fires of Hell.(Cantate Dominio, Council of Florence 1441).
Jesus said that the road to Hell is wide and most people take. The road to Heaven is narrow .The Catholic Church is the narrow path to Heaven.
When Saul was persecuting the Christians Jesus said ‘Saul ,Saul why do you persecute me?” Jesus identified with the Church, It was the Catholic Church. It was the only Church at that time. It over time gave other Christians their Bible and the belief in the Trinity.
gravenimage says
You don’t appear to care that Muslims are oppressing and slaughtering Catholics and other Christians.
Is there a reason for that?
Lionel Andrades says
I am referring the Catholic magisterial documents, Church documents which I interpret with the old theology of Feeneyism and which Robert interprets with the irrational new theology, which I call Cushingism.
If he interpreted Vatican Council II for example with Feeneyism ( invisible people are not visible on earth) then the Council would be saying that all Jews, Muslims and other Christians are on the way to Hell unless they enter the Catholic Church. This would be offensive to the Jewish Left. So it seems Robert is afraid to speak the truth on this subject and remains political correct .
He does not want to offend the Zionists, it seems, by asking the U.S bishops to interpret Vatican Council with Feeneyism and announce the Catholic Church’s official teaching on Islam according to Vatican Council II( Feeneyite)
gravenimage says
The idea that the principled Robert Spencer is bowing to the Jewish Left is ludicrous.
His main point here is opposing the threat of Jihad and Shari’ah. Your arguments about how to interpret Vatican II–which seem pretty iffy in any case, but I will leave that aside–will be a moot point if we are taken over by Islam.
Jews are not a threat to Christians. Would that we could say the same about ravening Muslims.
Lionel Andrades says
Check list of doctrinal errors on Church Militant.com
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/05/check-list-of-doctrinal-errors-on.html
CM,SSPX,MICM deny the Faith to please superiors
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/05/cmsspxmicm-deny-faith-to-please.html
CMTV and the Archdiocese of Detroit
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/cmtv-and-archdiocese-of-detroit.html
Michael Voris does not say every one needs to be a card carrying member of the Church for salvation. For him there are exceptions.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/michael-voris-does-not-say-every-one.html
VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/02/vatican-council-ii-says.html
Questions and Answers : Vatican Council II is Feeneyite. It has an exclusivist ecclesiology
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/05/questions-and-answers-vatican-council.html
Questions and Answers : Vatican Council II affirms the Social Kingship of Christ the King
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/05/questions-and-answers-vatican-council_7.html
Every one needs to be a card carrying member of the Catholic Church today for salvation
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/05/every-one-needs-to-be-card-carrying.html
Joseph Shaw would not say that all need to formally enter the Church for salvation in Britain. This would be the old ecclesiology.Instead he would say that there are exceptions. This is the new ecclesiology.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/joseph-shaw-would-not-say-that-all-need.html
Joseph Shaw is not going to tell Muslims at Oxford that the Chuch says all need to formally enter the Church to avoid Hell. Neither is Gavin D’Costa going to say this in Bristol.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/04/joseph-shaw-is-not-going-to-tell.html
mgoldberg says
One would hope that some bishop will actually engage Robert Spencer in a lively debate, and we can see the expanse of the appeasement and denial, but then… I imagine I may be naive’ and dreaming. Still… it would be hoped that with the ever increasing assaults upon christians worldwide, that the Pope of Rome’s
dictates might weaken amongst his flock with anger, and questioning coming to the forefront and so much that the Bishops need to somehow refule the notion of Islam, Jihad, and the realities they bring to the world.
le mouron rouge says
This is so typical of Roman Catholic Church.
What can on expect from a group of “useful idiots” who continue to mislead people with their lies, just to name a few:
1. The “perpetual virginity” of Mary
2. Purgatory
3. The Eucharist “actually becoming” the body and blood of Our Lord and Savior, Yeshua HaMashiach?
Interesting, and when said Roman Catholic has received the Eucharist and defecates?
4. That the death of Our Lord and Savior Yeshua HaMashiach and the shedding of His blood was
insufficient for our salvation and that we need to be a Roman Catholic and partake of all the
sacraments and earn our way into heaven.
As a former Roman Catholic when I read articles such as this, I count my blessings that my Lord and Savior Yeshua HaMashiach opened my eyes and I responded to His word:
“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”
– Revelation 18:4
“They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.”
– John 16:1-3 (KJV)
gravenimage says
Your idea that Catholicism has always coddled up to Islam is *quite* mistaken–in fact, Catholicism fought Islam for hundreds of years.
Lionel Andrades says
This was before the New Theology which says invisible for us baptism of desire is a visible exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This theology was dominant in Vatican Council II. This philosophical error is common in Vatican Council II.
It can be corrected though, by being aware of hypothetical cases and not assuming that they are objective people in the present times.
gravenimage says
There is nothing “hypothetical” about the persecution of non-Muslims under Islam. This issue is not just a dry legalistic one.
This is about standing up against moral evil.
Mark Swan says
Absolutely gravenimage
gravenimage says
Thank you, Mark.
James says
This is hardly the place for anti-Catholic stuff. And it’s not very nice to the owner of this site, who is a Catholic. Those of us who are visitors to this site ought to be careful of our behaviour – that is only fair.
gravenimage says
U.S. Catholic bishops complicit in Muslim persecution of Christians
……………………..
Kudos to Robert Spencer for speaking out.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
Mr Spencer,you are descending too low for repeating that “persecution of christians”myth as stated in the mithraist evil bible ,which never exists.History has accurately recorded that over 90% of atrocities like genocide,enslavements through colonisation and slave trade,ethnic cleansing,mass killings and torture were being committed by christians.How can you call persecutors as persecuted.Christians have been oppressing muslims,colonising them,killing them,torturing them,stealing their resources,topling their good governments and sponsoring misguided elements to destabilise them.yet Mr Spencer as a professional liar and deceiver is saying muslims are persecuting christians and he is accusing his fellow mithraist christian leaders of complicity.Mr Spencer ,you are truly a mischiefmaker.may be the holy ghost (the satan)is always with you.that is why you invent lies inspired by your holy spirit ,the satan.
mgoldberg says
Let me see. You have an entirely different view than the one that carries the overwhelming evidence except that it is one never and not taught to muslis, in muslim nations. And for this avoidance you accuse the author of doing what he has stated is the persecution since the time of Mohammed of Christians, by muslims, upon all others- in this case, Christians. There is no such evidene as you stated that 90% if genocides were by Christians. The overwhelming evidence does however point to the abominations of homicidism, as clearly stated in the Sharia, in the hadiths, as stated by Islamic scholars, and called for by them, then, and now, resulted in some 80 millions of hindhis, some 10millions of buddhists, some 110 millions of Aficans ( and 19 or so millons enslaved and sold off as slaves) and more: here is some historical evidence for you to mull over.
The Tears of Jihad- by Prof Bill Warner
These figures are a rough estimate of the death of non-Muslims by the political act of jihad.
Africa
Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p. 188] estimates that 11 million slaves were shipped across the Atlantic and 14 million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East. For every slave captured many others died. Estimates of this collateral damage vary. The renowned missionary David Livingstone estimated that for every slave who reached a plantation, five others were killed in the initial raid or died of illness and privation on the forced march.[Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, p. 62, 1888] Those who were left behind were the very young, the weak, the sick and the old. These soon died since the main providers had been killed or enslaved. So, for 25 million slaves delivered to the market, we have an estimated death of about 120 million people. Islam ran the wholesale slave trade in Africa.
120 million Africans
Christians
The number of Christians martyred by Islam is 9 million [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-10] . A rough estimate by Raphael Moore in History of Asia Minor is that another 50 million died in wars by jihad. So counting the million African Christians killed in the 20th century we have:
60 million Christians
Hindus
Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the “funeral pyre of the Hindus.”
80 million Hindus
Buddhists
Buddhists do not keep up with the history of war. Keep in mind that in jihad only Christians and Jews were allowed to survive as dhimmis (servants to Islam); everyone else had to convert or die. Jihad killed the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in India. The total is roughly 10 million. [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-1.]
10 million Buddhists
Jews
Oddly enough there were not enough Jews killed in jihad to significantly affect the totals of the Great Annihilation. The jihad in Arabia was 100 percent effective, but the numbers were in the thousands, not millions. After that, the Jews submitted and became the dhimmis (servants and second class citizens) of Islam and did not have geographic political power.
This gives a rough estimate of 270 million killed by jihad.
Nigel GFF says
Tears indeed.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
mgoldberg says
oh, and one more thing. You represent the Jihad. Not the homidicists, but those who support, at minimum, in denying the overwhelming evidence, just today, of the mass serial killing by muslims, of non muslims, as well as other muslims seen as apostates, or homosexuals, carried out worldwide, by muslim Jihadists.
You are aiding and abetting them, by denying any muslim involvement. Which makes you an accomplice.
mgoldberg says
uh, that would be the homicidists, not homidicists…. sorry.
Are you?!? Ever? Do you have a molecule of shame in your body, in your soul?!?
gravenimage says
Appalling apologist for Muslim savagery ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
Mr Spencer,you (sic) are descending too low for repeating that “persecution of christians”myth (sic) as stated in the mithraist (sic) evil bible ,which (sic) never exists.
…………………………………….
Right now Muslims are persecuting Christians all over the world, and are in the process of committing full genocide in Middle East.
This has nothing to do with the Bible. All one need do is turn on the news.
I suppose that the vicious ibrahim itace muhammed does not consider rape and mass murder to be persecution if the victims are “filthy Infidels”.
More:
History has accurately recorded that over 90% of atrocities like genocide,enslavements (sic) through colonisation and slave trade,ethnic cleansing,mass (sic) killings and torture were being committed by christians (sic).
…………………………………….
What absolute falsehood.
And muhammed does not appear to realize that the Christian West *abolished* slavery–the only ones still practicing slavery are *Muslims*. Slavery is rife in the Muslim world–especially places like Mauritania, Sudan, and the Islamic State.
The “Prophet” Muhammed took, sold, and kept slaves–including sex slaves.
Jesus, in contrast, ministered to slaves. Compare and contrast.
More:
How can you call persecutors as persecuted.
…………………………………….
This is just grotesque. Even if muhammed’s false claim re Christian history was accurate–which it manifestly *is not*–the idea that this members of any group cannot be persecuted is absurd.
Here is an example–Muslims regularly rob, rape, and murder others, but if a Muslim is robbed, raped, or murdered, *he* is the victim of a crime. The fact that he belongs to a group that persecutes others does not mean that he himself cannot be a victim. All civilized people know this.
Is ibrahim itace muhammed such a moral imbecile that he is incapable of grasping this? Probably so.
More:
Christians have been oppressing muslims,colonising (sic) them,killing them,torturing them,stealing (sic) their resources,topling (sic) their good governments and sponsoring misguided elements to destabilise them.yet (sic) Mr Spencer as a professional liar and deceiver is saying muslims (sic) are persecuting christians (sic) and he is accusing his fellow mithraist (sic) christian leaders of complicity.Mr Spencer ,you (sic) are truly a mischiefmaker.may (sic) be the holy ghost (the satan)is (sic) always with you.that (sic) is why you invent lies inspired by your holy spirit ,the (sic) satan (sic).
…………………………………….
What a load of rot.
Let’s just ask muhammed whether he thinks it is a bad thing for his coreligionists to rape, enslave, and mass-slaughter Christians–or does he believe they deserve it for the “crime” of not being Muslim?
“Middle East Christians celebrate Christmas under yoke of genocide”
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/international/311161-middle-east-christians-will-celebrate-christmas-under-yoke
“The Islamic State’s Christian and Yizidi Sex Slaves”
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/07/31/the-islamic-states-christian-and-yizidi-sex-slaves/
“Islamic State: If Muslims Ran America, ‘Lucrative African Slave Trade Would Have Continued’”
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/02/islamic-state-muslims-ran-america-lucrative-african-slave-trade-continued/
Few things are more widely documented than the persecution of Christians by ibrahim itace muhammed’s coreligionists. In fact, when Muslims are not trying to whitewash the crimes of their vicious creed, they are crowing over it.
no_one says
Projection. Muslims have all of the atrocities you ascribe to the Christians. You are a brain washed liar.
Jeanette says
Nonsense, or rather, taqiyya.
270 MILLION killed, and 185 MILLION enslaved by Muslims since the Oh-So-Enlightened killer, pedophile and slave owner himself lived.
Anyone who supports the above, automtically supports pedophilia, murder and slavery. Muslims would even go so far as to support burning people alive, in the style of the ancient evil god called Ba’al.
Oh, never mind, Muslims already burning people alive, and crucifying small children.
There are more than a few decent people who still see monsters for what they are. They are the lights against the Islamic Abyss of Perpetual Darkness.
Go back to your fellow throat-slitting, head-mashing, baby-raping, zoosexual, wife-beating, wife-slicing, child murdering, animal abusing, thieving, lying, nasty pieces of work.
Is there a single positive trait that Muslims generally have?
Matt jeremy says
The pope is nothing more then the CEO of the Catholic cooperation.
Wellington says
Vatican II, that monumental mistake inaugurated by Pope John XXIII, keeps rearing its destructive head time and time again even though more than a half century has elapsed since this completely unnecessary ecumenical council was called by one who, quite stupidly, did what it is ALWAYS stupid, i.e., attempting to fix something that isn’t broken.
I mean what the hell did Vatican II fix that needed to be fixed seen from a traditional Catholic perspective, and yet it unleashed forces that have had a most destructive result within the Catholic Church (three examples, and there are so many which could be cited, being the effective decimation of the Latin Mass, opening the door to the disastrous error which is liberation theology, and the truly moronic and insupportable contention that all religions have valid revelation communications from the Judeo-Christian deity, thus unwittingly undermining the two millennia claim that Roman Catholicism is the keeper of the true faith and, far worse, legitimizing a religion in Islam which looks upon Christians as inferior human beings, actually the equivalent of human waste, and even denies the sine qua non event of Christianity, the Crucifixion of Jesus {found in Sura 4}).
I was brought up a Roman Catholic. Was even a pre-Vatican II altar boy. So glad I am a Catholic no longer. It would break my heart were I. As it is, I’m just angry at what the Catholic Church has become but at least my heart isn’t broken. Guess I should thank a God that, no offense meant, I believe most likely is a legend. Yeah, guess so.
My God, what a screwed-up world we live in. Vatican II didn’t help. Indeed, quite the opposite.
Lionel Andrades says
But Robert Spencer is still using the Cushingite, New Theology like the Bishops in the USA. If he intepreted Vatican Ccuncil II with rational and traditional Feeneyite theology, then the Council would be saying all Muslims are oriented to Hell without faith and baptism.
However it would also be saying that all Jews are oriented to Hell without faith and baptism(AG 7) and this may not be welcome to Robert Spencer and the Left.
Wellington says
Vatican II produced the document, Lumen Gentium, which asserts that not only non-Catholic Christians can attain heaven but even non-Christians can if they seek God in their own and constructive way. At least this is my interpretation of this document, Feeney notwithstanding, and I think it is quite easy to reach this interpretation. It’s not as though there is a lot of ambiguity in it.
For the record and in the interest of full disclosure, I do not believe in any afterlife. As Marlene Dietrich said, “When you’re dead you’re dead, that’s it.”
Personally, I find it extremely difficult to accept the idea that George Washington, Joseph Stalin, Abraham Lincoln, Adolf Hitler, Julius Caesar, Hannibal, Pericles, all the Roman soldiers who manned Hadrian’s Wall in the second, third and fourth centuries, all the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Chinese who have lived and died over the centuries, etc. still exist in any way. There is zero evidence that they do and religions have never been able to provide any such evidence. None.
Lionel Andrades says
The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Jesus. It is the only Church Jesus founded and outside of this Church there is no salvation.:Catechism is exclusivist
https://www.gloria.tv/article/GfBdVpoeMzm228QwdD67mADSo
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/05/the-catholic-church-is-mystical-body-of.html
Lionel Andrades says
Graven Image/Wellington
The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Jesus. It is the only Church Jesus founded and outside of this Church there is no salvation.:Catechism is exclusivist
https://www.gloria.tv/article/GfBdVpoeMzm228QwdD67mADSo
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/05/the-catholic-church-is-mystical-body-of.html
James says
Something depends on what one considers sufficient evidence for the next life. The Resurrection of Christ is the guarantee of everything else.
tony46 says
Nothing new here.
It is the same bury-your-head-in-the-sand attitude that ushered the Holocaust at the hands of the Nazis against millions of people.
abad says
“But if you believe that Islam is not a religion of peace, you have no place in the U.S. Catholic Church.”
And if any of them believe it is then they should leave the Roman Catholic Church and convert to Islam.
Guess what.
It is much, much, much easier to convert to Islam than it is Roman Catholicism.
Joseph says
I am a Catholic and it is so frustrating to see the Pope and his bishops supporting the Islamic agenda. Probably the Pope and many in the Catholic church if they have not already been propagandized by the Islamists or the Left, are doing this based on the biblical verse which tells you to offer someone the other cheek when he/she slaps you on one. But what about speaking truth to power like how Jesus consistently did. I feel that the ‘turning the other cheek’ verse is metaphorically referring to letting go of personal attachments and not encouraging you to let others walk all over you. In dealing with the systemic evil of Islam, Christians should always speak the truth and be on the side of those who do.
patriotliz says
Totally agree and, as a Catholic, I’m reluctant to donate to the Catholic Church because of their massive LEFT turn into politics. Every time I see the term “Social Justice” mentioned in the Church bulletin, I want to scream. They’ve confused “charity” w/ communistic social justice.
I assumed that Pope Benedict was forced to step down as Pope because he cited the ancient text written by St. Manuel II Palaiologos at his Regensburg lecture:
“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman (or “bad and inhumane”), such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
James says
The worse things seem to be with the Pope, the more – not less – important is to pray for him. Especially when the bad news is accurate, instead of false, as it so often is. That, after all, is what Christ does for us.
ibrahim itace muhammed says
John c,you mean this forum is one_sided created by mr spencer to disseminate lies against Islam for you to take hook,line and sinker?mr spencer claims to be an expert on jihad in islam and that is why he calls this forum ” jihad watch ” discussing islamic ideology.i am a muslim and as such i have a stake.mr spencer himself partipates in muslim forums to defend his obnoxious views.Mr John,you are myiopic.
mgoldberg says
You say this forum is one sided…. ok, but when shown evidence, assertions backe by evidence you have none but your initial persoanl attack against R Spencer, and no more, but merely to assert they’re ‘lies’.
But ehy are not. Jihad watch is the forum he established to evaluate the reality, the theology of, and the historical record of Jihad, upon all others, to submit, and or murder those who would not be submitted.
The record since 9/11 is about 500,000 murdered or wounded by Jihadists in over 30,500 Jihad attacks. All recorded and able to be researched.
You are indeed a muslim and you indeed have a stake.
What will you do?
Jeanette says
One sided does not mean “incorrect.”
Over 30,000 attacks by Muslims just since 2001.
Statistics speak for themselves.
Don’t you have a lovely fatal stoning to enjoy today?
gravenimage says
Appalling apologist for Muslim savagery ibrahim itace muhammed wrote:
John c,you (sic) mean this forum is one_sided (sic) created by mr (sic) spencer (sic) to disseminate lies against Islam for you to take hook,line (sic) and sinker?
………………………………
So as ibrahim itace muhammed would have it this site is “one sided” because it does not laud child rape, sex slavery. and genocide?
Note that–as always–he never once says what is supposed to be a “lie” here.
If these lies were so rife he should have no trouble noting what they are–yet in all the years he has been spamming here he has never cited a single example.
What he really means is that he does not want anyone to speak of the horrors of Islam *critically*. If Jihad Watch spoke glowingly of child rape and murdering the “filthy unbelievers” he would be fine with it.
More:
mr (sic) spencer (sic) claims to be an expert on jihad in islam (sic) and that is why he calls this forum ” jihad (sic) watch (sic)” discussing islamic (sic) ideology.
………………………………
Note that–as usual–muhammed is never able to say exactly what Robert Spencer gets wrong. And how could he? Spencer cites how *Muslims* interpret violent Jihad–which is exactly why we have had almost 31,000 Jihad terror attacks just since 9/11.
More:
i (sic) am a muslim (sic) and as such i have a stake.mr (sic) spencer (sic) himself partipates (sic) in muslim (sic) forums to defend his obnoxious views.Mr (sic) John,you are myiopic (sic).
……………………………….
Well, *of course* ibrahim itace muhammed has a stake in Infidels being kept in the dark about the threat of Islam. This is true of all pious Muslims.
He hope he can keep us ignorant of the threat of Islam until it is too late. Mainstream whitewash.
Politicianphobia says
Ibrahim itace muhammed, You can read and write and you still say you are a Muslim. It is a man religion–cult. Many wives, sex slaves, marry little girls, kill anyone who does not agree with you. Make women wear ghost outfits. You have the damn nerve to talk about slaves–now my blood pressure is rising. YOU ARE EVIL. Your IQ seems to be more than 79 but still you say you are a Muslim.
Jeanette says
But so often the evil either don’t realize that they are evil, or they (naturally) deny it.
Kathleen03 says
Paul Wiliams’ authored an excellent book, “The Vatican Exposed.” Read the book (facts, not opinions) and you will better understand why the Catholic Conference of Bishops defends Muslims and illegal aliens.
I have never heard a member of the CC’s clergy speak out and denounce the barbaric Muslim attacks on innocents in our country and around the world. The CC passionately supports illegal aliens, yet I have never seen a priest, bishop or cardinal stand by and speak out on behalf of the thousands of Americans who have been killed/murdered by illegal aliens.
le mouron rouge says
Kathleen03,
Thank you for the recommendation, “The Vatican Exposed” by Paul Williams. May I suggest:
The Black Pope: A History of the Jesuits by M. F. Cusack
The Jesuits: Their Moral Maxims And Plots Against Kings, Nations, And Churches by James Aitken Wylie
The Jesuits by Malachi Martin
The Secret History of the Jesuits by Edmund Paris
Washington in the Lap of Rome by Justin D Fulton
The Roman Catholic Church demands blind obedience, that the flock leave their brains, so to speak, at the door, as illustrated in the following statement.
“As for holy obedience, this virtue must be perfect in every point, in execution, in will, in intellect; doing which is enjoined with all celerity, spiritual joy and perseverance; persuading ourselves that everything is just, suppressing every repugnant thought and judgement of one’s own in a certain obedience; and let everyone persuade himself, that he who lives under obedience should be moved and directed, under Divine Providence, by his superior, just as if he were a corpse (perinde acsi cadaver esset) which allows itself to be moved and led in every direction.”
– Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuits.
gravenimage says
Robert Spencer is a devout Catholic, and he sure as heck hasn’t left his brain at the door. Nor does he believe he has to obey unthinkingly when it comes to moral matters.
James says
Islam has frequently been denounced by Catholic clergy. The last 53 years have been untypical in their clerical Islamophilia.
Not everything in the CC revolves around the domestic politics of the US.
andrew says
I am not supersized. There some Cardinals, who plain stupid, and idiots. Those who follow that ideology know it is a sin. There silence, says it all….
Here is another matter, that many refuse to believe, and not reply back. Israel, is an ally of ISIS. That is a fact.
The US Govt., we already know know their passed history. But even Trump, is on the band wagon. Want to rid of Assad. Blames, Assad, of Chemical weapons, when everyone it comes ISIS. and Saudi Arabia…
Linde Barrera says
To Robert Spencer- This article shows me why you are my hero: because you are 1 tough guy, and you always call out the “idiots” in a polite way using just the facts and logic. So the song that has as its chorus: “Did you ever know that you’re my hero, you’re everything I would like to be…” is very appropriate here. And I alays pray for you, Mr. Spencer. So please accept my heartfelt thanks and atitude.
.
gravenimage says
+1
Bill says
Catholicism’s complicity with Islam proceeds from the erroneous Catholic belief that it is possible to be saved apart from faith in Christ if one lives a virtuous life. Catholic theologians erroneously quote Paul’s statement in Romans 2 “it is not the hearers of the law who will be justified by God, but the doers of the law will be justified.” They preach a salvation that is possible, in their mind, apart from faith in Christ even though Paul writes in Romans 3 and throughout his writings that “by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in His sight, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.” Couple that with the ungodly belief that salvation is by faith and works, that God has replaced Israel by the Church, and you can see the theological roots of the Roman Catechism (841) that states that Catholics and Muslims “together adore God.” Thus the Roman Church is UNFAITHFUL to Christ and and preach “ANOTHER GOSPEL.”
Lionel Andrades says
Bill,
We are now discovering that there is no known salvation outside the Church and there never was.
This could result in a theological earth quake in the Catholic Church. Even Robert Spencer is not onto to it yet.
____________________
‘The dogma of the faith’ is not lost: SSPX could trigger a schism and ‘bring Rome back to the Faith’
‘The dogma of the faith’ has not been lost and the Society of St. Pius X are at the point where they can trigger a schism among the liberal bishops conferences and religious communities but also bring Rome, the Vatican, back to the Catholic Faith with one stroke, one simple action, one small theological and philosophical correction.
Our Lady at Fatima said that the dogma of the faith will be lost except in Portugal, if she was referring to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, then it is presently lost among all sections of Catholics.
We have discovered however,thanks to her and Jesus, the specific cause of the loss of this dogma of the faith.We have found the missing link and we can correct the mistake.Whether the present liberal magisterium accepts the error and makes the change, is not known.However Catholics in general can come back to the Faith as it was known over the centuries.Whether they will be persecuted and isolated for this is another issue.However for the average Catholic, theologically and doctrinally we are once again in harmony.
The SSPX could restore ‘the dogma of the faith’ since they have a personal interest in doing so – their canonical recognition.They simply have to affirm Vatican Council II( Feeneyite) which is in harmony with ‘the dogma of the faith’.This will cause a rebellion.The world will be furious. May be there will even be a schism before unity is restored.
However as Archbishop Lefebvre wanted, ‘Rome will come back to the faith’.
We must remember Leonard Feeney of Boston. He took on the entire Boston Establishment.They threw everything at him and he did not recant.
This is the big moment for the SSPX and the sedevacantists. They can affirm all magisterial documents with the theology of Feeneyism and bring Rome and the whole Church back to the Catholic Faith.-Lionel Andrades
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/05/the-dogma-of-faith-is-not-lost-sspx.html
Bill says
Yes. There is no salvation outside Christ and His Church. The Scriptures are clear that faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified is necessary and sufficient for salvation. Jesus said to Rabbinic Jews, “unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins.” Jesus said to the Samaritan woman: ” you (Samaritans) don’t know who you worship for salvation is from the Jews.” Paul wrote to gentile believers in Ephesians: “you were once strangers and aliens…without hope and without God…seperate from the Commonwealth of Israel…but now through Christ you who were far off have been brought near.” Romans 9:30-33 is one of many clear statements of our salvation…righteousness is by faith and not by works. How many times do Jesus and His Apostles have to say it?
Mark Swan says
James 2:14-26
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
bill says
You quote one verse in James and build an entire theology from one verse. Let ne ask you a question for starters: 1. Do you PERSONALLY read the Scriptures daily? 2.As to Abraham: Genesis 15:6 states that Abraham beleived God and it was creditrd to him as righteousness. Paul cites this example in his detailed discourse of the the righteousness of faith in Romans 4. Is Paul and is Genesis correct that Abraham was declared righteous decades before Issac was born? 3. Plesse read Romans 9:30-33 and exolain the meaning. SOLA FIDE.
Mark Swan says
Jesus said: “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him” (John 14:23). Through the Holy Spirit, Christ and the Father actually live within the truly converted Christian, guiding them, inspiring them and empowering them to keep the commandments and live God’s way of life! The Apostle Paul was also inspired to make this very plain when he wrote: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me” (Galatians 2:20, KJV). That is the “key.” Through the Spirit, Christ will literally live His life in our human flesh! He will give us the strength to obey God’s commandments!
Religious opponents challenge the real Christian by saying: “You can’t keep the Ten Commandments! They are spiritual and you are only physical.” But one who is led by God’s Holy Spirit may truly reply: “You are right. In my own human strength, I can’t. But to the degree I yield to God’s Holy Spirit, I can and I will keep God’s commandments! Christ within me helps me not to kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, covet, dishonor my parents, break God’s Sabbath, practice idolatry, take God’s name in vain or have another ‘god’ before the true God. I may slip in some point occasionally, but I will then repent and confess my sin to God and have His forgiveness (1 John 1:8–9). Then I get back on God’s path and, through His Spirit, grow in grace and knowledge. I am not perfect. But, through Christ living His life within me, I am growing toward perfection and walking in God’s law as my basic way of life.”
The doctrine of Antichrist, then, is that Christ does not literally live His life within His people today! It is the false teaching that Christians today can live a different kind of life from what Jesus lived and still be His true followers. It often includes the idea that Christ was righteous in our stead, and therefore we do not have to be. We just accept Him and His righteousness is imputed to us. Effectively, God “kids Himself” and pretends that we are really righteous when we actually are not! This doctrine is a damnable lie! “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). He will live the same kind of life in you and me today that He lived nearly 2,000 years ago when He walked this earth in the human flesh. At that time, He continually taught obedience to all of God’s commandments (Matthew 5:19). We have seen His answer to the young man asking Him how to inherit eternal life: “Keep the commandments” (19:17).
Near the end of the Apostolic Age, God inspired the Apostle John to describe the true saints of God: “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14). There are many, many false ministers today who are teaching the doctrine of Antichrist, a doctrine that sanctions disobedience to God’s commandments—a doctrine of “no works.” The Apostle Paul said of these ministers: “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works” (2 Corinthians 11:13–15). You will notice here that Satan has ministers who appear to be righteous. Ironically, their end—their final reward—will be according to their “works,” the very thing they seek to deny!
God intends for us to obey His commandments, do good works and live by His every word. Once you get this principle straight, you can clearly understand the “spirit of Antichrist” and how to test whether any religious leader’s idea or doctrine is of God!
Then, by diligent study of God’s Word and by constant prayer, you will come to a deeper understanding of the real purpose of your life and experience closer contact with the Living God than you may ever have dreamed possible.
Yes, Jesus Christ is to live and dwell within His people today through the Holy Spirit. To the degree they yield to Him, their lives will be ones of full and complete obedience, just as Jesus’ life was in the flesh. Their customs, their traditions, their way of life will be the same as His in every respect, because He does not change. And He will be living within them!
Then Christ and the Father can be absolutely sure that their people are fully surrendered to God, who can continually impart to true Christians His very divine nature and character—and so prepare them to be kings and priests ( rulers and teachers) in the literal Kingdom of God soon to be set up on this earth. “And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen” (Revelation 1:5–6).
We need to Examine ourselves honestly. Have we really understood Christianity before? Is Christ really living His life in us? Do we have the spiritual “backbone” to act on the truth we have just reviewed?
bill says
Thank you for accusing me of advocating antinomianism. The very same accusation was made by the enemies of the Gospel against Paul. Yes, the Holy Spirit abides in our heart by faith (that Chtist may dwell in your hearts by faith and you be filled with all of the fullness of God). The commandments CAN be obeyed by grace through faith. Righteousness is attained by grace through faith. The Apostle Paul calls the commandments “the ministry of death” and ” the ministry of condemnation” in 2 Corinthians 3. The COMMANDMENTS are holy and good and are to be obeyed butcare not the means of righteousness…faith in Christ and Him crucified is the only means of imputed and our actual righteousness. You used complete false premises in your arguments by dishonestly and sloppily accusing Protestantism of denying the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and accusing Protestantism of antinimianism. You also failed to answer my questions. It was people like youbwho killed the Apostle Paul. How many times does Paul have to write “NOT BY WORKS.”
Keys says
bill and Mark –
How does this fit from Revelation 20?
11
Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them.
12
I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls.
13
The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds.
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The verses before this in Chapter 20 make me think of Allah and Mohammad, thrown into the lake of fire. Jerusalem surrounded, the enemy Islam destroyed by fire from the sky. Not saying that is what it means, but it seems to fit nicely.
9
They invaded the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
10
The Devil who had led them astray was thrown into the pool of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Mark Swan says
Of course, no one can earn salvation. But a willful disobedience against God’s instructions is a sure sign that you have not really repented or become truly converted
Jesus gave two requirements with which many do not agree. Some want to be “saved” but ignore the matter of repentance. What is repentance? The Greek word translated “repent” is metanoeo, which means to “think differently.” One must repent of sin. But what is sin? “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.” (1 John 3:4). The King James Version puts it plainly—”sin is the transgression of the law.” When you transgress one of the Ten Commandments, you have sinned. As the Apostle James wrote: “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, ‘Do not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘Do not murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty” (James 2:10–12).
When we repent of sin, we are deeply sorry for having transgressed God’s law. We no longer have a hostile attitude toward God and His law of liberty. We no longer have a carnal attitude that is enmity against the law of God (cf. Romans 8:7). After repentance, we want to be in harmony with God’s law of love—the Ten Commandments. Repentance brings a deep change in our thinking, and a commitment to live by every word of God. As Jesus said: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God” (Luke 4:4).
Repentance is more than an intellectual awareness of sin. Genuine repentance brings deep sorrow for our sins.
If we continue to practice sin with no change in our attitude or life, there is no genuine repentance. Psalm 51 is David’s acknowledgement of his sin. Read that Psalm and it will help you. Notice that David did not ask for “justice”! Justice for David would have meant the death penalty. “The wages of sin is death” for us all (Romans 6:23)! So, in his repentant attitude, David asked for mercy. “Have mercy upon me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness; according to the multitude of Your tender mercies, blot out my transgressions. Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin” (Psalm 51:1–2).
David acknowledged his sin. He prayed earnestly for God to cleanse him. Have you ever prayed that way? “For I acknowledge my transgressions, and my sin is always before me. Against You, You only, have I sinned, and done this evil in Your sight; that You may be found just when You speak, and blameless when You judge” (vv. 3–4).
David’s repentance sets an example for all of us. We all need that humble and contrite attitude! “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart; these, O God, You will not despise” (Psalm 51:17).
After we come to the point of repentance, as David did, and we obey Christ’s instruction to be baptized, we are forgiven of all our past sins and we begin to walk in newness of life. How, then, should we continue to respond to the unmerited pardon and grace that God has given us? Notice: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?” (Romans 6:1–2).
Should a newly begotten Christian, whom God has forgiven and granted grace (unmerited forgiveness and pardon), continue to transgress God’s law and disobey God? Paul says plainly: “Certainly not!” The biblical evidence is overwhelming. We cannot continue to disobey God and be given the gift of salvation. Paul was dealing with false Christians who were trying—like many today—to use grace as a license to sin!
The Apostle Jude also condemned this unbiblical approach to grace. “For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ” (Jude 4). The New Revised Standard Version states that these “intruders… pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness.” The New International Version words it this way: “They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality.” How many professing Christians are doing just that today? Those who pervert the grace of God are saying by their conduct: “We are free to transgress the Ten Commandments; we don’t need to obey God and keep His commandments!” That is wrong! That form of rebellion is carnality, not conversion! The truth is that keeping God’s commandments is an expression of love. The first four commandments show us how to love God, and the last six commandments show us how to love our neighbors. As the Apostle John wrote: “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3)—or “not grievous” as the KJV has it.
So, as the Apostle Paul strongly stated, we cannot continue to live under grace if we are practicing sin at the same time. No truly repentant Christian would want to practice sin while claiming grace. The true Christian has “died to self” at baptism, as Paul explains: “Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life” (Romans 6:3–4).
Your Bible reveals God’s awesome plan of salvation. Salvation is a free gift, which we could never earn. Most Bible students are familiar with one of the fundamental scriptures on the subject: “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9). Notice that God’s grace is a gift, but faith for salvation is also a gift of God! Verse 10 is often overlooked by those who turn grace into a license to sin: “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10). Our response to God’s grace produces good works, and we walk in them; that is, we continually produce good works. We must bear the fruit of true Christianity in our lives.
We cannot grow spiritually without God’s Spirit. As we have read, God gives a repentant sinner the gift of the Holy Spirit after baptism. Notice that this gift of God’s Spirit is given by the laying on of hands by God’s true servants. The Apostles “laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit” (Acts 8:17). The Holy Spirit is the spiritual power from God that begets us as His children, and empowers us to grow spiritually.
We need the Holy Spirit to overcome the downward pull of human nature. Paul described his struggles with human nature: “I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin” (Romans 7:25).
Notice Paul’s attitude of obedience. Will God give the Holy Spirit to those who have an attitude of disobedience? No, He will not! As Peter plainly stated:: “And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him” (Acts 5:32). God will not give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those in an attitude of disobedience.
Peter and the Apostles continually demonstrated an attitude of obedience to God. Notice Peter’s boldness in speaking to the Jews’ Sanhedrin. This council had commanded the Apostles not to preach in the name of Jesus. What was their response? “But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: ‘We ought to obey God rather than men'” (Acts 5:29).
One of the themes of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is that obedience to God brings blessings, and disobedience to God brings curses. You can receive God’s wonderful blessings and His gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. But God will only give His special spiritual blessings to those who are willing to repent, to believe and to obey Him. As Peter wrote: “For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? Now ‘If the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?'” (1 Peter 4:17–18).
Jesus Christ is our living Savior. We shall be saved by His life (Romans 5;10)! I pray that you, too, will participate in God’s wonderful plan of salvation.
Bill says
Mr. K: I’m not sure as this passage seems to be at the end of the Millennium. I do know that the way to escape this fate is by faith in Jesus and His work on the cross. Sola Fide Bro.
Mark Swan says
Bill I replied to you above.
Keys, you are asking about Revelation 20,
This is a very troublesome reality to consider, that after the thousand year reign of Christ on this Earth,
a time when no troubles as exist now are present, peace and perfect everything, Satan is released, and
Humans follow him in such great numbers. “Whose number is as the sand of the sea”.
This aught to be very sobering to us all, to consider such a shameful example of rebellious minds.
But it will happen just as God describes it.
Keys, when Christ returns, Satan will be subdued, followers of Islam will be told the truth, and not allowed to continue in their delusion.
bill says
To Mark Swain…your rambling on and on added nothing to the conversation. Salvationbis by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Grace is unmerited favor and is NOT empowerment. The basis of a person living a moral, obedient, loving life is the certainty of the forgiveness of their sin and the imputation of the righteousness of Christ as a free gift purchased by Christ and His death. The Holy Spirit powers the saint as the saint believes the gospel. What presumption on your part to assume that the true gospel of grace is a license to sin..it is a license to be holy. The false gospel that you preach produces…no IS self righteousness and is responsible for the shipwreck of millions of souls.
Mark Swan says
Bill
God is not trying to save this present age of Man and Satans rule.
Humans have been given a 6000 year period of time to experiment,
burn their fingers, as it is.
The first humans chose to teach themselves, something all humans would have chose, God knew this would happen before they ever made humans. But the penalty for breaking the law, is death, all the humans who ever lived could not pay for one single sin, that would take a perfect being, human being, that was without sin to give up life to pay this penalty, no one was perfect, except God, so the being called the word, emptied himself, and was born as a human , lived sinless, gave his human life, and made it possible for humans to be pardoned. If they are willing and obedient to God.
When Christ was born as a flesh and blood human , His purpose during that life was
not to bring peace to the world then. However, He will accomplish that at His Second Coming. The Bible foretells the events leading up to His return when He will establish His kingdom and a Millennium of peace.
The Bible reveals that peace comes from following the laws of God (Psalm 119:165) and that Jesus Christ is going to return to this earth as the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7) to show mankind the way to peace and put an end to war forever (Isaiah 2:2-4).
Obedience to God’s commandments would bring peace and fulfillment and joy to all the nations and peoples of this earth. It is the real answer to all of our problems, individually and collectively. It is the way of life Jesus Christ is going to teach when He returns to rule this world (Micah 4:2).
I do appreciate this chance to share the truth, take care.
Bill says
Mark…thanks for the sincere concern. However, you are preaching what Paul called “another gospel.” I will answer the questions I asked you since you did not care to. I am relying on memory and do not have the capacity to copy and paste from Bible Gateway. First, Abraham was indeed declared righteous in Genesis 15:6. This was decades before the birth of Issac. It took Abraham a lifetime to learn the obedience that enabled him to offer Issac. A lifetime of grace. Abraham sinned by lying and allowing Pharoah to take his wife as a sex slave, by fornicating with Hagar and generating Ishmael, who Psalm 83 includes with the children of Lot (“that righteous man” Peter calls him) as the enemies of Israel, an act of unbelief and direct disobedience. Abraham also personally laughed at God’s promise that Sarah would conceive and had the nerve to ask God to fulfill the promise through Ishmael. Abraham lied about Sarah in her old age and deceived Abimelech, saying that Sarah was his sister and allowed Abemilech to take her as his sex slave. Let’s not forget also that at the Oaks of Mamre Sarah laughed in derision at God’s promise and lied to God when He asked “why did Sarah laugh.” Sarah said, “I did not laugh.” God said, “Yes you did.” Each one of Abrahim’s sins are examples of his unbelief in the promise of God. He learned and at the latter part of his life he passed the test by being willing to sacrifice Issac. God never rebuked Abraham and never punished him, because God promised the world to Abraham. When God cut the covenant with Abraham God knocked Abraham out and God alone walked through the gauntlet of dead carcasses stating that the performance of the covenant is solely His responsibility. Yes, Paul is correct in Romans 4 that, as with Abraham, “God justifies the ungodly by faith.” This act of justification of Abraham occurred centuries prior to the Law and the Commandments. Paul says our justification is “apart from the Law.” Paul says “by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.” Paul refers to the Commandments in 2Corinthians 3 as “the ministry of death” and “the ministry of condemnation.” He writes in Galatians that everyone who is under the Law is under a curse, “for cursed is everyone who does not continue in everything written in the Law.” Romans 9:30-33 states that the gentiles attained righteousness by faith and Israel failed to attain righteousness because they sought it by works. The gospel is simple. Our deliverance from our sin and our ability to obey The Commandments is simple….”Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.” “Be ye reconciled to God. He made Him who had no sin become sin for us so that we may become the righteousness of God in Him.
Mark Swan says
Bill, thank you for what you have written here, I do hope I understand what you are conveying, here.
Anyone who knows me will tell you I will discuss the Bible all day long, so dont feel preached at.
One thing that throws most off is, that, Ancient Israel was carnal (not converted) they were instructed to
make sacrifices, that, could not change that, but would allow them to continue under Gods care.
They failed and were removed from their land and scattered. Of course, these rituals, were done
away, with Christs Ultimate sacrifice.
Abraham, David, the Prophets who share in the same lineage, God used before Christ as
servants who prepared the way before Christ. Remember God calls a servant a Friend.
Here is another attempt to explain what I have come to understand.
The Holy Bible is the revealed word of the Creator God. It was written to show us the nature of God, and how we should live and worship Him, that we might become His children. Diligently studying your Bible is the way to come to know God. It is needed to dispel humanity’s confusion in its ideas of God. The Bible Carries Authority If you have proved and really believe that the Bible is the inspired revelation from God to man, then we should clearly realize that God’s word is not to be argued withor falsely interpreted to support pet doctrines. We may have had our own preconceived human idea of God. But if we want the truth, we must put that aside, and search God’s word to find out how He reveals Himself to us. Remember: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16). The Bible is meant to correct and reprove usto show us where we are wrong. Will we let it?
God says, “I am the Lord, I do not change” (Malachi 3:6). We find that Jesus Christ is, “the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8). The Father and the Son do not whimsically alter their plans and principlesor their laws. They “do not change.” At this point, it is important to realize that Christ was the God or “Lord” of the Old Testament! In John 1:15, we find that Christ was the “Word” or “Spokesman” who was with the Father from the beginning. All things were created by Jesus Christ (v. 3; Colossians 1:16). Christ was the spiritual “Rock” who protected the children of Israel, and it was He who gave them the Ten Commandments (1 Corinthians 10:16). God in the person of Jesus Christ is the One who gave the law that most preachers scorn today! Why do people hide their eyes from the Christ who is supreme Lawgiver? Do they think Christ has changed? Your Bible says He has not changed! God’s methods and laws are consistent from Genesis to Revelation.
But most self-appointed preachers, failing to realize this, will talk about the “God of the Old Testament” in contrast with Christ in the New Testament. They even say that Christ preached the gospel, but the Apostle Paul preached a different gospel. These preachers are in confusion. In Revelation 17:5, God calls this mixed-up, divided system “Babylon the Great”which literally means “great confusion.” God’s true people are commanded to come out of that system (Revelation 18:4). Why? Because the people in that system do not know the true God! Satan has his own false ministers who appear to be ministers of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:15). These false ministers are deceiving people, “whose minds the god of this age has blinded” (2 Corinthians 4:4). How can these people be so easily deceived? First, because they blindly follow human tradition and its false ministers, and therefore have a false concept of God. Second, because they are spiritually too lazy to study the Bible and come to know the true God and His way.
The Bible Is Consistent From Genesis to Revelation, God is revealed as the Creator, the Ruler, Father of mankind. In Genesis 2:17, God commanded the first man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But Adam stubbornly disobeyed this command and incurred the death penalty. God had shown himself as Ruler, and His subjects had disobeyed.
Long before God instituted the Old Covenant, He blessed Abrahambecause he obeyed God’s laws and kept His commandments (Genesis 26:5). Abraham knew God as his Supreme Ruler. After the Israelites had come out of Egypt, God gave them His commandments, which they had lost since Jacob’s time. They were to be ruled by God’s laws, the only laws that can truly bring happiness. But the Israeliteshaving the same human nature we have todaydisobeyed God and were driven into captivity. Why? Because they refused to recognize Godto know Godas their Supreme Ruler.
Jesus came in the flesh to “reveal” the Father. He showed that God’s law would be in force until heaven and earth pass away (Matthew 5:18). Christ did not come to destroy God’s law, but to fulfill it (v. 17). Remember, to fulfill means to do or perform, not to do away with. When a young man came to ask Jesus how to be saved, he was told to “keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). Jesus taught that Christians were no longer to carry out the administration of the civil statutes and judgments for breaking the law (John 8:18). Christ’s followers are no longer to execute judgment on evildoers (Matthew 7:15). The rituals and carnal ordinances of the Old Testament were fulfilled by Christ’s sacrifice (Colossians 2:14; Hebrews 7:27).
Yet it is that very sacrifice, and the Holy Spirit which now lives within true Christians, that allows us to keep the spiritual commandments (Matthew 5:19). Indeed, Jesus’ whole ministry was one of revealing God as the supreme Lawgiver and Ruler. Christ preached the good news of the coming kingdomgovernmentof God (Mark 1:14). That is the true gospelthe good news of God’s government, God’s rule!
The very foundation of Jesus’ teaching was that, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” (Matthew 4:4). What word? What God? The Jews of Jesus’ day knew very well that Christ was referring to the God of the Old Testamentthe giver of the lawwho was to rule Israel. The only “word” of the true God, at that time, was the Old Testament contained in your Bible! Jesus referred to the “law”the Old Testament writingsas scripture, and He said, “the scripture cannot be broken” (John 10:35). Yes, you are commanded to live by every word of the true God as revealed by Jesus Christ in the New and Old Testaments of your Bible. Do you know that God? Or do you think Christ did not know what He was talking about? Please open your mind to this truth!
Christ Our Example Most professing “Christian” ministers talk about Christ as some sort of hero and Savior, but they refuse to acknowledge His gospel, His teachings and His example. Their conception is that He came to die for mankind, but that His teaching carries no authority today!
Your Bible says the exact opposite! We read that Jesus’ life was the “light” of men (John 1:4). It was to show them God’s way to live. Peter was inspired to write, “Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps” (1 Peter 2:21). Also: “He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked” (1 John 2:6). Or, as the Moffat translation renders that verse: “He who says he ‘remains in him’ ought to be living as he lived.” Jesus is our perfect example! Those who say they are Christiansthat they “remain in Him”ought to be living as He lived! Are you?
If we do not believe in and try to follow Jesus’ example, we do not understand what kind of God the true God is. We are ignorant of how to worship and obey the God and Father of Jesus Christ. What was Jesus’ example? Jesus’ entire life is a perfect example of obedience to God’s law and His rule! He said, “I have kept my Father’s commandments” (John 15:10). His own teaching was simply a magnification of God’s law (Isaiah 42:21). Actually, He came in the flesh to magnify His own lawthe Ten Commandments! Remember, He was the God of the Old Testament who gave the Ten Commandments and dealt with Israel (1 Corinthians 10:16). When He came in the flesh, Jesus kept that law to set us an example. He was our “light,” our example.
A true Christian is one who follows Christwho follows that example. Do you begin to see the true nature of the living God? He is the One who has set all physical and spiritual laws and energies in motion. He has an overall plan for this earthHe is Supreme Ruler. The Word came in the flesh as Jesus Christ, to preach the good news of God’s kingdomHis government. Jesus always preached that gospel. Philip preached it (Acts 8:12). The Apostle Paul preached it all through his ministryeven to the Gentiles at Rome (Acts 28:31). It is the only true gospel! God’s Character God is a ruler.
If we become His begotten children through repentance, baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), we can be “born again” into His Kingdom (John 3:18). We can be changed intoactually bornof spirit as literal Children of God! God is reproducing Himself! He, the Creator and Ruler of the universe, is begetting human beings through His Spirit to be born as His Childrento be in His own family and inherit eternal life. But before God will make us His own Children and grant us eternal life, we must first learn how to live. We must develop God’s wisdomHis character. We must “live by every word of God.” Realizing that our Creator knows best, we should obey Him. To deny this is to admit a profound ignorance of the Eternal God’s great wisdom and purpose! It betrays a lack of understanding of the character of the true God.
The Apostle John summed it up when he wrote of Christthe God of the Old Testament, the giver of the law: “He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him” (1 John 2:4). God Himself calls lawless ministers liars when they try to deny the authority of His rule, the wisdom of His law and the very basis of His great purpose!
May God help us to repent of defying His rule and breaking His laws, and guide us to accept Christ as your Savior from sin. Then we may begin to develop the character of God and be born of the Spirit as one of His Children in the resurrection.
Take Care Bill.
Bill says
Mark…read Galatians 4. Paul refers to The Sinai Covenant as “Hagar in slavery with her children.” In Hebrews the Sinai Covenant is described as “weak and useless.” In Hebrews we are told that we should be fearful of one thing: “failure of entering His (God’s) rest.” We are also told that those who enter God’s rest “cease from their own works.” In Galatians Paul refers to those, like you, who seek to be justified by their obedience to the Commandments as “fallen from grace.” In 2 Corinthians 3 Paul refers to the Commandments as “the ministry of death and the ministry of condemnation.” The goal IS obedience to God’s Law. This is only achieved by grace (unmerited, unearned, undeserved favor) through faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified and nothing else. We are not to seek righteousness throug obedience to the Commandments, through ritual Law or through the observation of days or Sabbaths. The entire Law is summed up according to Paul in one word….Christian love. All of the moral Commandments in the Law and in the New Testament are to be obeyed. Yet my obedience do not add one bit to my righteousness…only my faith in Jesus and His blood adds to my righteousness. I really dislike your version of the Gospel. It is, as Paul stated, “another Gospel” and their is no deliverance from sin, no true holiness and no power to obey. As Paul writes, “Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES.” And, Jesus says to YOU, as He said to His Israeli brethren, “None of you follow the Law.”
Mark Swan says
Bill, my friend, I have given enough example of what the Bible says, concerning
The Law. Only God can call and convert us. Please read my final post here.
Who is the mysterious “Harlot” of Revelation 17? This is a puzzle to millions of peopleand even to many theologians. Yet the Word of God devotes most of an entire chapterplus many references elsewhereto this vital topic.
Whoever this great “Harlot” is, she is very powerful. She has, and will in the future, martyr untold millions of human beings. She is destined to dramatically change the lives of every one who read this This Harlot sits astride a system encompassing many nations and peoples, “Then he said to me, The waters which you saw, where the Harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues” (Revelation 17:15). And she continues to exist right up to the Second Coming of Christ! For Gods Word describes the “ten horns” or ten kings (v. 12) which will arise at that time: “These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful. And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire” (vv. 14, 16).
The great Harlot”rides” the Beast (modern Babylon). She is clearly set forth as being distinctly separate from the Beastthe empire with ten final kings giving their power and authority to one super-dictator also called the “Beast.” Obviously, the woman cannot “ride” the Beast and at the same time be the Beast!
Many scholars do realize, however, that the Beast of Revelation 17 is the Roman Empire and its “revivals” in various forms.
Please understand. Through-out the New Testament, the term “woman” is used as a symbol for a church.
So when we come to the “woman” of Revelation 17, it should be very obvious thatletting the Bible interpret its own symbolsthis woman is indeed a church. However, this church, “sitting on a scarlet beast” (v. 3) is truly a spiritual “harlot.”
For she has entered into adulterous alliances with the leaders and kings of this world (v. 2). And the inhabitants of the earth are made spiritually “drunk” because of her false teachings. She is a “mother” churchgiving birth to spiritual “harlots” (v. 5). And, as indicated, she deals in “mysteries,” as did the ancient pagan religions before her.
Also, this “woman” is a great persecuting church. For John was inspired to write, “I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement” (v. 6). Please think about that.
Historically, do we read about a great church that did persecute millions of people during the Middle Ages? Did such a church actually exist?
So when John saw this “woman” or apostate church “drunk with the blood of the saints,” he was certainly not exaggerating. it has seemed to many objective historians that this powerful church was the veritable embodiment of evil in nearly every aspect.
The prophet Daniel was inspired to describe this foul religious system as a “little horn.” After describing the four great ruling kingdoms of the Gentile worldBabylon, Medo-Persia, Alexanders Greco-Macedonian Empire and finally RomeDaniel then describes a “little horn” coming up among the early resurrections of the Roman Empire: “I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.” (Daniel 7:8).
In verses 2527 of this same chapter, Daniel is inspired to describe the actions of this pompous “little horn” and how it would last right up to Christs return and His rule over the nations: “He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, shall persecute the saints of the Most High, and shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time. But the court shall be seated, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and destroy it forever. Then the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.”
Notice that this “little horn” is different from the pagan empire (v. 24), for it is, in fact, a religious empire! Note also that the human leader of this foul system speaks “pompous words” against God, persecutes the true Christians and intends to change times and law. This is a direct reference to the fact that the Catholic Church fostered the idea that the Ten Commandments were subsumed to church authority and that they changed Gods commanded seventh-day Sabbath (Exodus 20:811; Hebrews 4:911). They substituted the pagan “day of the sun” in place of Gods Sabbath.
Renowned modern historian Will Durant writes, “The serious temper of the Jewish Sabbath was transferred to the Christian Sunday that replaced it in the second century” (The Story of Civilization, vol. 3, 1972, p. 599). How did this happen? A Roman Catholic study course tells us that “the [Roman] Church transferred the obligation from Saturday to Sunday” (Father Smith Instructs Jackson). The Catholic Mirror agrees: “The Catholic Church by virtue of her Divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (Sept. 23, 1893).
As this system developed, a “man of sin” would be revealedaudaciously taking to himself titles and authority that belong only to God. He was to sit as a veritable “god” in the temple of Godusing some of the very titles of God. In fact, though Jesus called God “Holy Father,” Catholics call the pope Most Holy Father” and “Vicar of Christ”which literally means “in place of Christ”!
Few realize that the so-called “Holy” Roman Empire is being revived right under our noses! Throughout most of continental Europe, there is a great push for full European unity. And one of the major players in this geopolitical chess game isyou guessed it!the pope himself.
Although the Bible certainly does not indicate that the final pope will be the “emperor” of this revived Holy Roman Empire; it does show that he will be the “power behind the throne. So, as many popes did during the Middle Ages, he will use the power of the statethe “Beast”to force His will on the entire western world!
So they not only admit, but even insist that they are the “mother” of all churches”! And they insist also that they alone have the “keys” to Gods Kingdom! Truly, it is time to wake up!
It is time for all who believe in God to go back and prove whether their religious beliefs and practices actually came out of the Bibleor out of “Babylon.” For the Creator God tells all who will heed, “For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury. And I heard another voice from heaven saying, come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues” (Revelation 18:34).
As Jesus said, “Watch.” Keep your eyes on this revival of the Holy Roman Empire. “Watch” how it slowly but surely begins to gain total power in most of Europethen Central and South America and finally most of the entire world. “Watch” how other churches are, bit by bit, coaxed, persuaded or finally coerced into going back to the “mother” church. Will we also turn aside from the God of the Bible?
Pray for real understanding, faith and courage. Obey Jesus instruction, “Watch therefore, and pray always that we may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man” (Luke 21:36).
Genuinely study your Bible as never before follow Pauls inspired admonition, “prove all things, hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21, KJV).
Thank You Bill for this opportunity to discuss The Bible.
Mark Swan says
I will reply to any comment, if you care to make one on this.