A non-Muslim who reportedly declared that he wanted to “kill all Muslims” plowed into a crowd at the notorious jihad terror-tied Finsbury Park Mosque. Any attack on any innocent people is reprehensible and to be condemned, and this one is no different. It does, however, present a tremendous opportunity to the British political and media establishment. They have declared that “far-right extremism” is just as much of a threat as jihad terror, but they haven’t had any “far-right extremism” to validate their narrative aside from an occasion strip of bacon at a mosque — only highlighting how hysterical this narrative is as the casualties of Islamic jihad attacks continue to mount.
But now they have this, and it is clear that Theresa May and her cohorts are determined to make the most of it to take even more actions against “Islamophobia” — by which they mean not just vigilante attacks against innocent Muslims, but also honest analysis of how jihadis use the texts and teachings of Islam to justify violence and supremacism. The Finsbury Park Mosque has a record of jihad terror activity, but reporting on that will be seen as inciting violence against innocent Muslims, and all vestiges of any sane response to the jihad terror threat that may remain in Britain now will be shut down.
The worst aspect of this is that this attack appears to have been undertaken by someone who was overwhelmed with frustration at what the British government is doing to the country. If May really wants to stamp out “Islamophobia,” she could do it easily by working swiftly and honestly against the jihad threat, rather than accommodating and appeasing Islamic supremacists at every turn. It is that appeasement, not truthful counterterror analysis, that incites vigilantism. If she dealt with the jihad threat in any effective way, then there would be no more attacks like this one. She and her government, due to their supine response to jihad, bear the ultimate responsibility for the horrific incident at the Finsbury Park Mosque.
“‘Every bit as sickening’ May vows to stamp out Islamophobia as politicians flock to scene,” by Tom Parfitt, Express, June 19, 2017:
THERESA May vowed to stamp out Islamophobia after the Finsbury Park mosque terror attack as Jeremy Corbyn arrived at the scene to console victims.
The Prime Minister said there had been “far too much tolerance of extremism” in recent years, including anti-Muslim hatred.
She branded the attack in north London “every bit as sickening” as recent Islamist attacks but insisted Britain would not be broken by terror.
Mrs May said: “Terrorism, extremism and hatred take many forms, and our determination to tackle them must be the same, whoever is responsible.
“This Government will act to stamp out extremist and hateful ideology, both across society and on the internet.
“We will be reviewing our counter-terrorism strategy and ensuring that police and security services have the powers they need.
“And we will establish a new commission for countering extremism in the same way that we have fought racism.”
The PM made the comments outside Downing Street after chairing a meeting of the Government’s emergency Cobra committee….
Mrs May added: “This was an attack on Muslims near their place of worship.
“And like all terrorism in whatever form, it shares the same fundamental goal.
“It seeks to drive us apart and to break the precious bonds of solidarity and citizenship which we share in this country. We will not let this happen.”…
Ade says
Really ? .. well in that case ….. I vow to stamp out Theresa May
TL says
You may not have to. Whatever support the CUP has left will erode under cries of ‘back stabbers’ and ‘traitors’. Have no doubt that there were traitors and backstabbers in the 8th century, too, who resisted resistance to the Islamic invasion and aggression in Iberia and Gaul. Their presence is just another problem to recognize, manage, and eliminate.
mortimer says
The British people are fed up that they are not being defended by the TRAITOR CLASS.
Kilfincelt says
In that case they should never have voted for Corbyn because he is even worse.
gravenimage says
True, Kilfincelt–as bad as May is, Corbyn would likely be even worse.
I would love to see Britain have some real leaders.
Jak says
Why is she wearing a Muslim style headscarf? Has she converted to Islam?
JawsV says
She’s a leftist groveler.
Godwin says
She is still fooling around, not realizing that a civil war is brewing.in Londonistan.
Shone says
Or any other leftist or rightist politician who submits it self to the death cult. When the government impose foreign laws, foreign faith , then it is time to overthrow that kind of government. By elections, or by other means necessary. Have the Brit’s forgot Magna Charta? Or they want to have bearded tyrants as rulers? Do the people who have defeated Nazis want a ideology far more dangerous than Nazism to be imposed on them? Do they want a Parliament full of um ma? I don’t think so. So, what to do? Fight, with words, with books, with pens, with keyboards, and if this is not enough, then with weapons. Defend yourself from the rising tide of cancerous rats, defend yourself from the plague that started 1400 years ago. It is not incurable, all you need is just stop to feel guilty, stop to treat rats as humans, and regain your freedom, your country, if you do not, then the Albion has fallen, the West has fallen, the fatherland of modern day Lingua Franca has fallen! You want that to happen? Do you want to live under sharia? To be govern by liars, deceivers and camel merchants? Do you want a Sultan instead of a king? Do you want to see Westminster Abby as a mosque? Do you???
Malcolm (South Afric) says
It might be worth while to compare Edrogan (Turkey) diplomatic efforts) to Prime Minister May above statements.
2014 Erdoğan took advantage of the Holy Father’s visit to argue that Western leaders who seek his aid in combatting jihadism need to clean up their own house first. Erdoğan urged the Pope in his welcome address to combat the “the very serious and rapid trend of growth in racism, discrimination, and hatred of others, especially Islamophobia in the West.”
The point was further amplified by Mehmet Görmez, the minister of religious affairs. “We feel anxiety and concern for the future, that the Islamophobic paranoia that has already been spread among Western public opinion is being used as a pretext for massive pressures, intimidation, discrimination, alienation, and actual attacks against our Muslim brothers and sisters living in the West,” he said.
Edrogan has no qualms about supporting jihadis and Western politicians have been falling for it and his request.
MSW says
Me First!
abad says
May’s failure to put the lives of UK’s real citizens – non-Muslims – ahead of Muslims is a serious problem.
Time to impeach her, UK.
Jayell says
No point now. She’s probably on her way shortly.
Ned Kelly says
Western world governments’ ignorance of Islam astounds me.
Kassandros says
Perhaps Daesh operatives/lone operators can be classified now as CHRISTOPHOBICS or JUDOPHOBICS ?
Kilfincelt says
I think that is a great idea because that is very true.
gravenimage says
I wish they were.
eur says
Did the Muslims who were loyal to this mosque protest when Abu Hamza was there spreading hatred? This is the same mosque from which several jihadists have been lobotomized, where Abu Hamza and other fascists have lobbied for a long time the multitude of young Muslims.
What this crazy killer has done is wrong, that guy is a murderer … but the Europeans are sick of those mosques where hate is preached. Muslims know … and they want it to be like this.
mortimer says
eur wrote: that Muslims did not object “when Abu Hamza was there spreading hatred”.
Why would Muslims object to Islam’s hatred doctrine called ‘AL WALAA WAL BARAA’ ??? They would find nothing wrong with the preaching of AL WALAA WAL BARAA.
gravenimage says
All true about Finsbury Mosque.
And it has yet to be determined if Darren Osborne actually killed anyone–a Mosque-goer apparently collapsed on the sidewalk *before* the car rammed into the crowd. The investigation will determine this. Of course, what this thug did was indefensible–and will be used by both Muslims and dhimmis like Theresa May to shut down legitimate and peaceful opposition to Jihad terror.
Rufolino says
Yes Gravenimage, this will be the TRUE tragedy of this mosque attack:- the position of Islam in the UK will be enormously strengthened. Islam in the UK is becoming untouchable.
It is incredible that the Prime Minister immediately went to visit Finsbury Park mosque.
Given this mosque’s appalling reputation for disseminating barbaric hatred (the very “extremism” she wants to “stamp out”) Mrs.May would have done far better to maintain her distance from this place.
But she lacks political judgement, as she has repeatedly demonstrated.
roger eric woodhouse says
The whole political class is in fear of Islam. That is why they appease it at every turn. The sleepwalking Brits go along with this because of their total ignorance of this foul religion and also because the truth is too uncomfotasble for them to bare..There is no one in the media who dare state any opposition .
Bob says
Yes, and there’s every possibility, it seems, that the driver was DUI and fainted at the wheel – but on the other hand, why was he near that mosque at all?
Robert Crawford says
He wasn’t near the mosque. Not even on the same street.
Emperor's New Clothes says
He’s not a killer- nobody died. Don’t take my word for it though – read up on it yourself. The person the media initially reported as having died was actually an elderly man having a heart attack BEFORE the incident in question took place.
Benedict says
If a mosque exclusively was a place of worship, this would never have happened. But we all know, that it is often a place dedicated to indoctrination and radicalization. This said not to defend the horrific act. –
Now the spiral of violence lurks beneath the surface to the malicious delight of IS.
John W. says
I wonder if Mr. Khan will say that this is just part and parcel of living in a bit city.
Jayell says
Khan’s response to this is going to be very interesting!!!!
Rufolino says
Khan doesn’t need to say anything, Mrs.May is defending Islam for him.
Bob says
May is defending islam for islam!
Dawn says
He probably won’t say that he will show his anger because he is Muslim after all
Hindu American says
Khan was quick to call this van attack “an act of terrorism”. I am waiting to hear him counsel his co-religionists with the phrase: “terror attacks are “part and parcel” of urban life”.
James says
This is what happens when a mosque preaches jihad. Apparently the infidels are supposed to lie back and take being massacred like good little piggies. But when one of them snaps, and kills the gigantic number of one Muslim, that is an outrage. Because killing 22 kuffar, then 7, is just part of life in a modern city that the kuffar must put up with.
Emperor's New Clothes says
No Muslims died in this attack, NONE. Look it up. A man died who was having a heart attack BEFORE the van hit the crowd. It’s a propaganda exercise, a very sinister one, and it stinks. LOOK FOR PICTURES OF THE VAN – it’s barely got a scratch on it.
Billybob says
This is not a terror attack. It was vengeance. They are trying to change our language. Here is a definition of terror attack. ..
Type of: act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act. the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. coup de main, surprise attack.
JawsV says
Of course its vengeance. Well-deserved. The Mohammedans have been getting away with too much for too long. Taste of own medicine.
gravenimage says
John W. wrote:
I wonder if Mr. Khan will say that this is just part and parcel of living in a bit city.
……………………………
Damn good question, John. Of course not, as I’m sure you guessed:
“‘Terrorism is terrorism’ says London mayor Sadiq Khan as he condemns Finsbury Park attack”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/terrorism-terrorism-says-london-mayor-10646307
Malcolm (South Afric) says
Lets distinguish what islamophobia is: opposed to sharia law above our own christian values.
PRCS says
Not to be mean, Malcolm,
I understand the intent of your post, but many of us here are not Christians.
Islam’s supremacicm, as it relates to every “unbeliever”, is ueber alles.
Malcolm (South Afric) says
@ PRCS
You have a point, I can think of a few values that secular society have introduced in Law that many Christians do not identify with, with since the sixties.
I would imagine that multiculturalism being a goal of secularism would be the end of the culture and traditions of the various countries in Western Europe, as secularism seems intent to follow this route.
The secular idea that islam will assimilate into secularism is ridiculous, it will bring misery.
PRCS says
Thanks for your response, but as an American secularist (the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions) it’s E pluribus unum for me (melting into an existing pot–if you will–not multiculturalism.
You are correct, however: the idea, by whomever, that Muslims will assimilate or acculturate into non-Muslim nations —so long as Qur’an and Sunna say what they do—is indeed ridiculous.
roger eric woodhouse says
As our cowardly governments will not protect us against the onslaught of islam and hide behind a failed stratagy of appeasement there will inevitably come a time when people will indeed take the law into their own hands .We must be armed when that time comes ..Either we kick out these appeasers and elect people who understand the threat we face or continue down thiis road which will lead to much greater bloodshed. Which is it to be?
SK says
Whenever someone does something like this, they end up making “counter-Jihad” sound like “reverse jihad”, which would be ridiculous.
New rule: If anyone here or on any other Islam-critical site threatens to do something that sounds like “reverse jihad”, they are going to get reported to intelligence agency tiplines. Who’s with me?
gravenimage says
SK, I have seen a few people here over the years–not many–who advocate that we should do something like “nuke Mecca”.
Advocating violence that they could actually pull off is even rarer.
If anyone *did* preach such violence, I would oppose them–if anyone sees such agent provocateurs–they are rare–they can report them to Robert or Marc at Jihad Watch. Their comments will be removed, and I’m sure if the threat seemed credible and actionable that they would report it to authorities.
Surak says
Just curious if you are equally opposed to the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to win a war started by the other side with a terrorist-style attack.
PRCS says
Can’t speak for GI, but the H & N nukes were used against a fanatical–but small nation which couldn’t retaliate in kind.
Necessary–IMO–to end the war without a ground invasion.
An issue today–Islam is worldwide–and “they” have nukes, too.
Complicated situation.
Who would “shoot first” and what would the consequence be?
gravenimage says
No, Surak–I would not have been opposed to the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which were highly regrettable, but almost certainly necessary to end the war without a land invasion. I agree with PRCS.
Despite the pathetic state of most of our Western governments at this point, I *don’t* believe we should give up on democracy and turn to fighting in the streets.
I know I don’t want Islam to force us to abandon our values and our institutions.
There may come a time when nothing is left to us but fighting in the streets–I do not feel we have come to that point. There are many other ways to fight Jihad before we are reduced to adopting Islam’s own savagery.
vlparker says
It does make for an interesting moral question, though. Our leaders aren’t protecting us and it has become obvious that they aren’t going to protect us. At what point in time do we resort to vigilante justice (against the truly guilty, not driving a car into a group of people amongst whom are children and women who are forced to be there against there will)? At what point in 1930s Germany would it have been okay for the Jews to go on the offensive? They never did and they went to the ovens instead.
PRCS says
vlparker,
A VERY interesting moral question.
SK says
GI:
I actually forgot the email for Mark. I was going to send him that post by a far-right Hindu guy wanting to have Trump (okay, he can’t pull it off) unleash a MOAB on all non-Hindus (I admit that it was “Christians” that got to me) of Kerala and other parts of India.(https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/new-york-city-subway-posters-affirm-right-of-muslim-women-to-wear-hijab#comment-1678837)
It was before your reply.
JawsV says
Not with you. Go join the Muslims.
Daniel Triplett says
I don’t know what “reverse jihad” is.
I do know that 1.7 Billion Muslims adhere to an ideology that requires them to convert, subjugate, or exterminate us (most all of them preferring the extermination option). That means they’re at war with us. So, to not be slaughtered, we must defend ourselves with an offensive war against them.
Most every public post I make advocates American sponsored military war strategy that extinguishes the Islamic threat. There’s no way to do that without killing millions of Muslims. And yes, it involves nuclear weapons…no other option is possible with an enemy its size.
Many, including I, have tried the conventional option for many years. It’s not working, and we’re losing the war.
I’ve never seen anyone publicly advocate terror tactics similar to those that jihadists use.
But let’s get real: The point of Strategic Area Bombing, either with TNT or nuclear ordnance, is to scare, or “terrorize” the enemy into surrendering to our terms. We’re just doing it on a larger scale, and with more advanced weapons than trucks and knives. But you better believe that once Iran completes construction of their own nuclear arsenal, they will most certainly use it against us…Muslims use whatever weapons are available to them, whether primitive or sophisticated.
“Terrorizing” enemies is how we win wars, whether its Johnny jihad doing it with a truck, or the Unites States of America doing it with nuclear bombs.
JawsV says
It’s 1.3 billion Allah-worshipers. Don’t increase their already over-populated demographic!
Yes, they’re at war with us so we’re at war with them. It’s the only way to stop Islam.
SK says
Daniel Trippett
American military strategy is not what I was talking about. In fact, I don’t even think of state armies as being equal to violent non-state actors.
You seemed to express disappointment at how Muslims and leftists are going to capitalize on this attack, which is regrettable.
I made up the word “reverse jihad” as a way to describe what I perceive as a left-wing thought pattern: that leftists seem to think that disagreement with Islamist doctrine of jihad is secretly just a cover story for something totally the same, such as this Darren Osbourne guy and his van of peace.
I don’t like the idea of this being a thing in real life, so that’s why I talk about tone policing ourselves, and stuff.
Daniel Triplett says
This was a gift to Islam.
Muslims will capitalize on this stupid and murderous vigilante attack to demand a massively disproportionate response against Kaffirs. We can all expect extreme Islamophobic censoring from now on. I wouldn’t be surprised if all Social Media scrub clean anything critical of Islam, which they’d already begun prior to this. But this will likely seal the deal.
This will put a giant muzzle on all of us. Sane and reasoned public counter-jihadists will never be allowed into the UK now.
We were already losing this war. Now we’ll continue losing worse.
Only Kaffir nation-state governments ought be killing our enemies.
tom parry says
Sounds like Roberts next visit will never be allowed now. What a Joke preiminister May is to freedom of expression.
SK says
I had a response above that is meant for your comments.
gravenimage says
All grimly true, Daniel.
And–slightly OT–thank you for your kind words to me on the “Retired Admiral” thread.
Daniel Triplett says
Your grace, class, and ability to remain cool under fire is enviable.
Stay strong Sister.
dumbledoresarmy says
The moment I heard about this, I *knew* the mohammedans right across the western world, and their enablers, would be milking it for all it was worth; ramping up the Mohammedan theatre of victimhood.
And that ALL public criticism or questioning of Islam, no matter how solidly referenced, coolly reasonable and measured in tone, would be dismissed as inflammatory “hate speech” and people will redouble their efforts to silence it.
Something that really does worry me, is that this is just too pat.
In Manchester, only about a week ago, there was a “March Against (Islamic) Hate” at which Tommy Robinson, among others, spoke. Esmerelda Weatherwax of New English Review had a good report on it, from someone who had been there; and when I went to look at Breitbart coverage I read through many, many comments – a good few of which were from ordinary Britons who had attended the march. People who had HAD IT with Islam. Apparently there were some thousands of people; and the trouble that did take place was initiated by the Islamophile UAF etc.
The thing is: there is *another*, similar march planned for LONDON.
My guess is that May and co. will use this incident at the (deeply sinister jihad-pushing) Finsbury Park Mosque (aka Ummah Military Base), to stop that second, planned British Infidel march of protest against Islamisation from taking place.
Does anybody want to lay bets on it?
TL says
Just as there’s no such thing as an innocent Marxist, there is no such thing as an innocent Muslim.
PRCS says
And, to them, no such thing as an innocent “unbeliever”.
TL says
Indeed, but not both ways can be correct. So eventually the conversion about Islam must move beyond the narrow confines of moralizing about Islamic brutality and turn to ontology, cosmology, theology, and other topics to show that Islam is just b.s. Now, since Islam and Christianity stand or fall on several similar claims (e.g. about resurrection, ascension, and an omnipotent creator), the best criticism of Islam will appear to be attacks upon Christianity, too. This is why Christians are not very good allies against Islam even though some of them are very motivated to criticize and resist Islam.
PRCS says
“Indeed, but not both ways can be correct.”
The immovable object vs the irresistible force.
“This is why Christians are not very good allies against Islam even though some of them are very motivated to criticize and resist Islam.”
Agree.
gravenimage says
TL, I disagree. One need not believe in Christianity to see that its values are *very* different from the bloody horror of Islam.
Robert Spencer himself is a devout Christian–do you consider him to be a weak ally in opposing Islam?
The fact is that you find dhimmis among both Christians and Atheists–you also find good people among both groups staunchly opposed to Jihad.
PRCS says
I agree with you TL.
On cannot honestly challenge those aspects of Islam which are scientifically impossible while ignoring such in Christianity and other religions.
Muhammad didn’t ride Buraq–anywhere–and the earth is more than 6,000 years old.
IMO.
Mark Swan says
gravenimage, You are absolutely correct, thank you.
If those who wish to see Christianity weaken even more, would stop and think,
over two billion people on this planet claim to be Christians, it is an alliance that
must be nurtured, not refused.
In the West, it will be mainly Christian people, who would stop this Muslim movement.
According to a recent study by the Pew Research Center, “Muslims are projected to be the world’s fastest-growing major religious group in the decades ahead” (PewForum.org, April 5, 2017).
The study indicates that births to families which identify as Muslim are projected to surpass births of those who identify as Christian, especially in Europe.
It also notes that the number of atheists and religiously non-affiliated are expected to decrease compared to both groups, which will reduce the influence of the nonreligious on the world scene and heighten the impact of religious views on world events.
Respected scholar Samuel Huntington wrote in his seminal work The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order that 1,400 years of history have demonstrated a “stormy relationship” between the various varieties of “Christianity”
and the Muslim world (p. 209).
Bible prophecy has long foretold an end-time conflict between a “king of the North” that will arise in Europe and a “king of the South” that will emerge in the Middle East (Daniel 11:40-43).
It has become apparent that this is a conflict between “Christianity” and Islam.
Jesus warned repeatedly that we should “watch” world events (Mark 13:29-37) because these prophecies will come to pass (Daniel 2:45; Isaiah 46:8-11).
Bob says
PRCS – please note that it isn’t the Bible that has the earth at 6,000 years old – it’s Bishop Ussher who tried to calculate the impossible.
Mark Swan says
Thanks Bob, maybe this will help clear this up.
In our world, science and the Bible seem constantly pitted against each other, and it is true that there certainly are outstanding questions to be resolved. But many such “conflicts” are illusions, arising either from misunderstanding the scientific data or from failing to understand the truth of God’s word.
One example is the age of the earth. Must Christians put themselves at odds with the current theories of reputable geologists in order to accept the claims of the Bible? Just how old is the earth?
We can see very clearly in Scripture that the creation of the plants, animals, and mankind, itself—Adam and Eve—took place around 6,000 years ago. The Bible gives us enough information concerning the ages of the patriarchs and their descendants to make this conclusion hard to dispute. On the origins of mankind in the Garden of Eden—nearly six millennia ago—God’s word is clear.
Just as clearly, nearly all reputable geologists looking at evidence of our planet’s age conclude that the earth has been in existence for a long time! “Ask any geologist how old the Earth is,” writes American geologist G. Brent Dalrymple, “and the odds are very good that he or she will provide an answer very close to 4.54 [billion years]” (The Age of the Earth, p. 305). And, while future discoveries may overturn this conclusion, 4.5 billion years is very consistent with other evidence of the earth’s age, such as that taken from meteorites and lunar material.
An age of 6,000 years is certainly a far cry from 4,540,000,000!
Still, those who have put the Bible to the test in their lives have learned to trust it as the very word of God. So, what does the Bible truly say about the age of the earth? Surprisingly, it says both much more and much less than many understand!
It is wonderfully and literally true that “in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed” (Exodus 31:17) and that this “creation week” took place nearly 6,000 years ago, just as indicated in Scripture. But, what many miss is that the planet Earth and the heavens around Earth were already in existence at the beginning of that week!
We read in the very first verse of the Bible, before the events of that week, that: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). As we will see, that initial “beginning” of the earth and the heavens—before Adam and Eve, and before the animals and plants with which we are familiar—may have occurred long, long ago!
But notice carefully the second verse of Genesis, which many read right over, missing its clear implications, because of its usual translation: “The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep” (Genesis 1:2).
A simple statement—but it contains much more than meets the eye! The English words “without form, and void” are translated from the Hebrew words tohu and bohu. These two words, used together in Scripture just three times, indicate an uninhabitable wasteland—a condition of desolation or destruction. Significantly, the other two passages where tohu and bohu are used together—Isaiah 34:11 and Jeremiah 4:23—indicate that such desolate states of ruin and devastation were brought about by sin.
Furthermore, scholars point out that the Hebrew hayah—translated “was” in Genesis 1:2—elsewhere can convey the idea of “became.” Later in Genesis, in the passage describing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, we read that Lot’s wife “became [hayah] a pillar of salt” (Genesis 19:26). Certainly Lot had not married a pillar of salt; she had not always been so! Similarly, Genesis 1:2 could more appropriately be translated literally that “the earth became” a desolate waste—the Hebrew does not imply that it was created in that condition!
Putting these facts together, we can understand that God would surely have created the heavens and the earth with great order and beauty, yet that through some sinful circumstance they became desolate and devastated—ruined and uninhabitable—in need of renewal (cf. Psalm 104:30) before the creation of mankind! Indeed, Genesis 1:1–2 can accurately be translated: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. But the earth had become a desolation and a chaotic ruin, and darkness was on the face of the deep.”
So, does the Bible describe any sin or rebellion against God, before Adam’s creation, that could have brought such chaos and ruin? Yes, it does! Scripture tells us what Satan had done before he met Eve in the Garden of Eden, seeking to lure her into sinning against God (Genesis 3:1–5). God’s word makes it plain that angels were present before the earth existed, and they shouted for joy when they saw its foundation laid (Job 38:6–7)!
Lucifer—who became Satan the devil—existed at this time. Scripture describes this corrupted, sinful creature leading a prideful angelic rebellion (Ezekiel 28:12–16; Isaiah 14:12–14)—a rebellion that Scripture indicates included a third of the angels (Revelation 12:4). Isaiah 14:14 describes this prideful being’s desire to “ascend above the clouds” to take God’s very throne for himself—which implies that his assigned responsibilities were below the clouds, and therefore on the earth! Lucifer had the free will either to obey or to disobey God, and by refusing to carry out God’s will he became Satan—an adversary to God.
As sin always does, Satan’s rebellion brought destruction and ruin—in this case devastating the earth that had been his charge to prepare for God’s purposes. It is this chaotic and ruinous devastation, tohu and bohu, that we see reflected in the words of Genesis 1:2, and it is the miraculous six-day restoration of this planet—to a state of beauty and wonder fit for God’s creation of mankind—that we see in the rest of Genesis chapter 1!
So, as we can see, there is ample room in the words of Scripture to recognize the very ancient age of planet Earth. The Bible’s clear description of the creation of mankind, nearly 6,000 years ago, is not in conflict with its description of angelic activity occurring long before the Genesis 1:2 event—activity long ago when the world had been entrusted to Lucifer and his angels for God’s purposes before the creation of mankind.
But exactly how long ago did this occur? How long did Satan’s rebellion last? Did the dinosaurs exist at this time? Was it billions of years ago—close to the scientists’ estimate of a 4.5 billion-year-old Earth? Or was it earlier or later? On these details, the Bible is silent. But there is no conflict between the words of Scripture and the general scientific observation of a very ancient planet Earth.
Truly, science reveals many mysteries yet to be solved. But we should never let the changing findings of science—which are sometimes overturned entirely with the next discovery—cause us to doubt what the unchanging God says in His word! The evidence of history and science, properly understood, will always agree with the word of God. As Jesus Christ declares: “Your word is truth” (John 17:17)!
Savvy Kafir says
TL — I agree that Islam and Christianity are based upon equally dubious truth-claims/ theology. They’re both obvious fabrications, in my opinion. But Islam poses a FAR greater threat to the civilized world at this point. And there is no way we’re going to convince Muslims to abandon their religion, by promoting religious skepticism, fast enough to save us. More direct action (such as deportation) will be required, if the civilized world is to survive.
Attempting to undermine Islam, by attacking its truth-claims, should be part of our strategy. And I agree that religious skeptics — especially former Muslims — are more likely to be effective in that role. But the incredible insularity of Islamic culture, and the Muslim hatred of infidels, will make job very difficult, and probably very slow going. On the whole, Muslims will be the very last to give up their religious superstition.
Non-believers engaged in the counter-jihad should feel free to be honest about their views on religion in general, just as Christian counter-jihadis are free to promote their faith to anyone who’ll listen. But we can still work together to defend the West against the encroachment of Islam. If we skeptics are honest (as I think we must be), some Christian feathers will be ruffled. But some Christians will accept us as brothers-in-arms, fighting the savagery of Islam. That’s been my experience, anyway. (Some devout Christians have helped to promote my book, for instance.)
For me, it’s a little off-putting to see the Bible-quoting comments of zealous Christian counter-jihadis on sites like Jihad Watch; but I see those people first & foremost as defenders of Western civilization. Conservative Christians & religious Jews have been doing most of the work in the global counter-jihad, because they vastly outnumber us non-believing anti-Islam activists. Too many atheists & agnostics take a “live and let live” approach to Islam, which is not a worldview with staying power, when you’ve got millions of savage foes determined to destroy or subjugate you & your society.
Mark Swan says
Savvy Kafir, thank you for what you wrote here, we should stick together, you are right.
TL says
Correction: …the conversation about…
Oliver says
Is it possible that the driver is a Muslim of a different sect or rival mosque
SK says
Don’t count on it.
James says
That’s what I thought,
gravenimage says
I certainly considered this initially. It does not–so far, at least–appear to be the case.
Jair Dominguez says
The blood is in the hands -and tongues- of all those who critize islam, including those who are reading this website by accident.
gravenimage says
Jair Dominguez wrote:
The blood is in the hands -and tongues- of all those who critize (sic) islam, including those who are reading this website by accident.
……………………………….
What utter claptrap. Jihad Watch does not advocate violence–in fact, it has always opposed it.
The idea that saying a critical word about the hideous violence of Islam is itself violence is utterly false.
Does this mean that you are *in favor* of Muslims slaughtering Infidels, “marrying” children, raping unbelievers, and stoning rape victims to death, and don’t believe that we should be allowed to say anything critical about this savagery?
How can you live with yourself?
vlparker says
Sheesh. Now their is blood on our hands for reading. Jair would make a good Democrat politician.
Mark Swan says
Good One, vlparker.
JawsV says
Oh just can it, Jair. The blood is on the hands of MUSLIMS. Criticize Islam! It deserves to be criticized!
Savvy Kafir says
Jair D. — That’s like saying the blood of British & American soldiers (and helpless Jews) was on the hands of those Brits & Americans (and Jews) who dared to criticize the savagery of the Nazi ideology.
Honest criticism of a barbaric, imperialistic ideology is a moral imperative, NOT a pointless “provocation”, as many of my fellow Lefties seem to think. Muslims CAN resist the urge for violent “rebuttals”, if they choose to. They’re not all 3-year-olds, for f**k’s sake.
Bharat says
It is wise to act on ‘Cause’. Islamic terror is subject, then cause is Islam, politician need to act against cause and not against victim of terror.
Islam, means Islamic texts–Quran and Hadith are causes, that activate terrorist against non-Islamic group, better is to put total ban on Islam, includes Mosques and all officials related to Mosques.
We can see result.
roger eric woodhouse says
True Bharat. That time is coming but thousands of innocents have to die first. Thats the way we do things here.
Bob says
Try to convince our western politicos of that. What with the fear of being islamophobic and PC they seemingly dare do nothing at all, but sink gradually into dhimmitude! They are traitors to the populations which elected them!
kessler says
I was sick to my stomach when I read about this today.
Muslims and their leftist allies have been hungering for an attack like this to support their “islamophobia” agenda. Anyone speaking out against jihad terror by linking it to islamic theology will be lumped in with this guy and will be accused of inciting more attacks like these.
What an utter utter fool…
TL says
Oh, please. Caucasian leftists are backstabbers who would not exist if their ilk had gained the upper hand everywhere in Europe in the 8th century. The leftists need to have their filthy snouts rubbed in this fact every day.
James says
I agree with this.
Just in: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/19/finsbury-park-mosque-latest-terror-attack-london-live/
PRCS says
I agree, kessler.
Muslims and their useful idiots (Sharia May, MSM, etc.) will do exactly that.
Yes, said idiots should have their filthy snouts rubbed in this fact.
Should.
gravenimage says
Agreed, Kessler.
JawsV says
You’re a coward, kessler. We’re finally fighting back. Grow a pair.
Mark Swan says
I Agree With You kessler
Minutes1234 says
I love in France and am English.
After yesterday’s attack on Paris i reported it to my local bar – the did not know as they are more interested in gambling than news.
A barmaid approached me and commented that this attack was no worse than the attack on the mosque in britain and that Muslims have a right of self defence.
I replied that perhaps she has forgotten Nice, the nightclub attack of the bataclan and the hundreds of thousands of other attacks commited by Muslims.
Were these Acts of Self defence i asked?
Predictably, she inferred from this that I am an islamophobe, she is not a Muslim just an ordinary person.
This is what we face?
Wellington says
A gift to May. A gift to Islam. A gift to the Left.
TL says
Maybe, but let’s think through the rest of the game on the assumption that they are successful beyond their wildest dreams at shutting down sites like JW, Gates of Vienna, Political Islam, etc. Upon doing so the fans and supporters of such sites become isolated from each other in their respective communities. Yet many jinn of truth about Islam have been freed from their bottle and will continue to roam the world in seach of people who can translate theory into the politics of practical action against Islam, which implies action against secular humanist totaltarians, too.
So there would be a few million people who can no longer take comfort in anonymous, long distance relationships centered upon criticism of Islam. It takes no special insight to predict that many of these antiïslamists will turn to their local communities to find like minds. They will not remain satisfied for long, however, with complaining about Islam and its humanist helpers. Then we have the germination of a political movement which has been FORCED by the Cloud People to abide by the saying that all politics is local.
Now do you see the horns of the dilemma which is pointed toward Mujahid May and the rest or her ilk? To do little against “Islamophobes” will keep the latter in the business of freeing the jinn of truth, albeit without much political action commensurate with the truth. On the other hand, to suppress and oppress Spencer, Warner, etc. virtually guarantees the rise of new political partes which will be devoted to the expulsion of the Muslims and the dispersal of the Cloud People.
gravenimage says
All too true, Wellington.
Mark Swan says
Absolutely Wellington.
Charli Main says
Nothing to do with ” right wing extremists”.
Ordinary people are just becoming increasingly sick of Muslims and their Islamic shyte.
nicu says
When Non – Muslims defend themselves they are right wing or mentally ill — but when Muslims do it it is their nature .
Did May say ” All Londoners ” when REAL Londoners were killed by Muzzies ???
Europe is doomed !!!
PRCS says
Kinda sorta.
Beheadings by the Islamic State are generally labeled “a twisted, perversion of Islam”.
Beheadings by our Saudi pals are generally labeled “a strict interpretation of Islamic law”.
dumbledoresarmy says
You wrote –
“Beheadings by the Islamic State are generally labeled “a twisted, perversion of Islam”.
“Beheadings by our Saudi pals are generally labeled “a strict interpretation of Islamic law”.:
Now that is putting it in a nutshell. And a ‘keeper’. Duly copied by me and put on file, for future reference as applicable.
PRCS says
As it relates to Islam, the term “extremism” is actually compliance (full compliance) with a written ideology that May–and so many others–seemingly just can’t believe says, commands, demands, and above all, expects of Allah’s every able-bodied slave.
Islam is defined by its texts, not by the degree to which individual Muslims comply or to which the world’s Mays think they should.
She’s not referring to Jain extremism.
Does she think the Pope, Hasidic Jews, or the Dali Lama are extremists, too?
TL says
It so happens that Bill Warner, too, insists that Muhammad defines moderation in Islam. We ought to refer to Muhammad as THE PERFECT MODERATE.
PRCS says
Love Bill Warner!
TL says
Me, too, and his point about moderation is so important in terms of framing the issue of Islamic politics that it could not be emphasized too much.
gravenimage says
Yes–Bill Warner is excellent.
fred says
its not a phobia if the threat is real
Jedothek says
We should be very afraid when a politician says that he or she will stamp out Islamophobia, that there has been “far too much tolerance of extremism” etc. If these words mean anything at all, they mean that the British government will try to limit the expression by Britons of disagreements with Islam, i.e., further restrictions on freedom.
James says
Hitler must be so envious of Islam. If the British Govt had been this supine and idiotic towards Nazism, he would have won the war with no trouble.
roger eric woodhouse says
Unfotunately the British government was ‘idiotic and supine toward the nazis throughout the 1930s .Thats why we ended up with a war that cost millions of lives and billions in gold We are heading in the same direction regarding Islam. Strong leadership now is what is called for but non is forthcoming
rich says
My thoughts exactly. How does she intend to “stamp out” Islamaphobia? Stasi -like mass surveillance ?
C T says
The only way to stamp out Islamophobia is to stamp out the ahadith. They naturally engender fear and loathing because they say to kill apostates and homosexuals. Anyone who can and does read them realizes this.
Fr. John Higgins says
Stamping out “Islamaphobia” is a big task. She’s going to have to put an end to Jihad.
SK says
I agree; Robert would not have as much material to work with as he does if there wasn’t a huge issue with jihad.
roger eric woodhouse says
Without Jihad there is no Islam
Dawn says
Islamaphobia really as soon as Muslims are killed this word comes out of her mouth. Why not say Christianaphobia Jewishaphobia and so on. Many terrorist attacks has happened and all she basically says is this is life. Lets just move on. I am not saying what happened in front of the mosque is ok cause its not but she seems to care more about that incident.
somehistory says
She is ridiculously stupid as shown by her statement on the *motives* of the terrorists….to divide people. Either she is stupid or she is in favor and agreement with moslums taking over and imposing their unholy code on the country.
Anne Smith says
I fear that her stupidity was on display again in her speech condemning the “attack” on the Muslim worshippers.
In Britain it has always been a requirement not to give information on a crime and only to report the known facts, otherwise you are in breach of the sub judice rule and could prejudice a fair trial of the accused.
It seems to me – I may be wrong – that Teresa May, in proclaiming this a hate crime and an attack on Muslims has overstepped the mark and could very well have prejudiced the trial this man should receive.
It may well be that he was driving while very drunk and lost control. We only have the Muslims word of what he shouted, but as they were all attacking him as he lay on the ground who knows what he yelled? It may have been a hat attack but that has to be proved, or perhaps we don’t need to bother anymore in modern Britain.
The Police are very careful not to ascribe motives and descriptions of the crime to all the other outrages we have seen, so as not to prejudice the legal outcome. It seems Mrs May has no such compunction.
Anne Smith says
Correction: not a hat attack but a hate attack.
nicu says
Every European leader is like that – except those in East Europe .
West Europe is PRO islam and against their own people !
I bet they are bribed by saudi Arabia
SK says
There was a row between the Saudis and Corbyn, actually.
mortimer says
KAFIROPHOBIA IS THE REAL PROBLEM … will Theresa May stop KAFIROPHOBIA???
AL WALAA WAL BARAA IS ISLAM’S TEACHING OF HATE – KAFIROPHOBIA
“Battle, animosity, and hatred…directed from the Muslim to the infidel…is the foundation of our religion. And we consider this a justice and kindness to them.” -Osama bin Laden
Koran 40:35 “They who dispute the signs (verses) of Allah without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers.” (Note: not just “hated”, but “greatly hated”.)
Koran 48:29: “Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are violent to the unbelievers, but compassionate to one another.”
Koran 4: 101 “The kuffar are for you a clear enemy.”
Koran 8:60 “Terrorize the enemy of Allah and your enemy”
Koran 60:4 “We have rejected you, and there has arisen between us and you enmity and hatred, until you believe and worship Allaah alone.”
-“The doctrine of al Walaa wal Baraa is the REAL IMAGE for the actual practice of this faith.” – source “Al Walaa wal Baraa According to the Aqeedah of the Salaf”, by Sheikh Muhammad Saeed al Qatani, authoritative Saudi Sharia lawyer and imam at the Abu Bakr and Al Furqan Mosques in Mecca. – https://islamfuture.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/al-wala-wal-bara-according-to-the-aqeedah-of-the-salaf-parts-123/
-Imam Abdul-Latif ibn Abdur-Rahman Rahimullah said, “It is not possible for someone to realize Tawheed and act upon it, and yet not be HOSTILE against the mushrikeen. So anyone who isn’t HOSTILE against the mushrikeen, then it cannot be said that he acts upon Tawheed nor that he realizes it.” [ad-Durar as-Saniyyah 8/167]
BLC says
“precious bonds of solidarity and citizenship”…which bonds were they? The bonds created by the Manchester bombing of kids at a concert? The bonds created by the recent London vehicle attacks on pedestrians?
May needs to pull her head out of her backside.
Voytek Gagalka says
Soon in Britain under May’s regime the mere evil eye against a Muslim, say absolutely nothing about saying or doing against him/her, will be considered as an example of “Islamophobia.” British people are serfs taught always “to obey”: all rebellions and revolutions they ever made were eventual total failures.
James says
I think your knowledge of UK history needs brushing up,
Mark Swan says
Yep, I guess he forgot the American Revolutionary War.
Evosse1314 says
Tell the Scots Welsh and Irish that …you complete idiot.
roger eric woodhouse says
you forget ‘the industrial revolution’. That was a huge success!
John A. Marre says
Did she ever say that she wants to stamp out Muslims’ hatred for non-Muslims, and their determination to kill them?
gravenimage says
Of course not, John.
Mark Swan says
Absolutely not, she knows she can not influence the Muslims, she hopes to influence
the non-Muslims.
WVinMN says
I’m only surprised it took the Brits this long to retaliate, given the ineptitude and cowering behavior of their government. When the law doesn’t work for the people, the people take the law into their own hands. And that never ends well.
JawsV says
Of course it ends well. That’s how we got America from England. You know — the American Revolution. Or, you think we should still be a colony?
Evosse1314 says
You got it from Britain actually.
rich says
“Far too much tolerance of extremism?”
Stating simple facts about Islam or criticizing the migrant crisis gets you banned from the country or a home visit from the police. I’d love to know how May intends to step up the thought police.
As long as we are seeing weekly terrorist attacks, FGM, sharia courts, etc, there’s going to be “Islamaphobia.” Deal with these issues and the dreaded Islamaphobia will go away.
somehistory says
Stamp out the beast of islum….
One cannot stamp out “fear” whether it is reasonable…as in fear of being murdered on the street by car, in a restaurant by knife, at work by gun or sword, in the garden by sword, theater by bomb…or unreasonable as is the usual “phobia.”
One can work to “stamp out” the things of which people are afraid…stabbings on trains, in stores, on bridges, churches, places of work…
bombings by people who have been given free housing, free food, free everything and money to build the bombs.
rapes of children by gangs of hairy moslums.
islam.
But it is not possible to “stamp out” fear by going after those who are afraid. This will only increase the fear.
I still think the attacker in this case could be like the other attackers….a moslum.
Voytek Gagalka says
“Islamophobia” will never end until Islam is purged from non-Islamic countries. Once this is done, there will not be any “Islamophobia” worth mentioning. Islamic activity caused it. There was no “Islamophobia” before recent rise of violent Islam.
PRCS says
….the rise of violent Islam, which began 1400 years ago.
TL says
Ah, but the origins of Islam remain obscure. See
Were the Arab Conquests a Myth?
by Emmet Scott
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/160197/sec_id/160197
gravenimage says
This is possible. In the end, it hardly matters save to scholars–Islam has been a violent, conquering creed since its earliest days–whether these were the days of the “Prophet”–if he existed–or an accretion from a few decades later.
TL says
GI, it ALWAYS matters in warfare if one’s enemy is fighting for a fraud which can be plausibly demonstrated as such to the enemy.
gravenimage says
TL, I agree that truth is *always* important–and I am a great advocate of historical inquiry.
But–with respect–I very much doubt that if this is historically proven that it will effect any Muslim’s will to wage violent Jihad against us.
Muslims have certainly been fighting to spread the horror of Islam for well over a millenium, whatever the origin of Islam and of Arab conquest.
PRCS says
Not all must be historically proven, rather that they are scientifically impossible.
Muhammad didn’t split the moon.
The sun doesn’t set in a murky pool.
There are no winged donkeys.
We KNOW where human sperm is produced.
etc.
Yesterday, today, tomorrow.
roger eric woodhouse says
spot on Voytek. The vast majority of the Western world pre 9/11 had never heard of Islam never mind its very existance .What a happy world that was!!
Mark Swan says
Absolutely so, roger eric woodhouse.
Steve Golay says
Mr. Spencer,
Could this not have been (to thieve from Peter Dale Scott) a Deep Event. Or, an aspect of one. If only to warrant even more the totalitarianism of the British surveillance (population manhandled) state. All it would take would be a discreet whisper in the poor mate’s ear, once removed.
Islam’s threat is real enough. 1400 years of its menace is evidence to swamp any contrary notion. Yet, I do not see the need to keep the threat purely islamic. The present jihad could not have advanced thus far without significant assist from various levels of the Deep State. And the sloshing around of so much (Arab) oil needing to be managed. Putting it thus does not dismiss Islam’s (theological) programmatic violence, but it would explain certain *patterns*, and the Central State’s (these days) braggadocio boast that what you and your security needs is the overbearing oversight of the State’s control – and the funds to keep it rooted in your fears.
It is to the advantage (of someone) that Islam’s threat be kept purely and only that.
gravenimage says
Is this the idea that the poor little Muslims are being used by the nefarious West?
Frederick Middleton says
Apart from the absurdity of trying to stamp out an emotion, this is one that doesn’t actually exist!
mortimer says
Theresa May is OVER HER DEPTH and unsuited to be PM. The way to stop controversy is NOT to CRUSH it, but DEBATE it.
Controversy should be aired, discussed, debated and ultimately decided by THE PEOPLE and not by the PATRONIZING ELITES who are merely serving their own purposes while denying ordinary people the right to choose THEIR own interest above the interests of the invaders.
The colonization of England was NEVER agreed to by the English people. WHY ARE THEY SHOCKED THAT ENGLISH PEOPLE DON’T WISH TO BE COLONIZED?
WPM says
Mortimer
You are right if they debated let people air the truth it would have reach this point. The patronizing elites think ordinary peoples problems should just keep their heads down and follower there leaders ideas and orders without a second though. How dare they get upset when Islamic Imam are preaching that they want to kill them. How dare they get upset when children are murder by Islamic bombers in concert halls. How dare they get upset when Islamics run them over in public streets in France ,England , and Germany. We have police on the lookout for internet name calling , for people hanging bacon, We ban people like Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller and others who never advocated any violence, but invite in hate preaching Imams who are foaming at the mouth anti Jewish ,Anti Christian, Anti Hindi , calling for violence and religious hate. The tipping point is coming Theresa May by allowing this disease of” political correct thinking” keep open honest debate publicly from happening is inviting civil war and it will be on her head.. I pray for England and the rest of Western Europe there leaders have fail them.
Bob says
Yes, vote Corbyn, who’d open wide the doors and let everyonr in, without checks!
gravenimage says
UK: Theresa May vows to stamp out “Islamophobia”
………………………………..
Funny–she has never once vowed to stamp out Jihad against British Infidels–nor will she. Instead, she banned Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller from even entering the country–an illegal action–for daring to even mention the threat of Islam.
More:
But now they have this, and it is clear that Theresa May and her cohorts are determined to make the most of it to take even more actions against “Islamophobia” — by which they mean not just vigilante attacks against innocent Muslims, but also honest analysis of how jihadis use the texts and teachings of Islam to justify violence and supremacism. The Finsbury Park Mosque has a record of jihad terror activity, but reporting on that will be seen as inciting violence against innocent Muslims, and all vestiges of any sane response to the jihad terror threat that may remain in Britain now will be shut down.
………………………………..
Yes–that is exactly what I fear.
More:
The Prime Minister said there had been “far too much tolerance of extremism” in recent years, including anti-Muslim hatred.
………………………………..
Is May talking about Islamic “extremism”? I really doubt it. I imagine she is gearing up for more shutdown of freedom of speech on people who dare oppose Muslim savagery.
Charli Main says
Sharia May is on track to become the worst Prime Minister in British history.
This woman is completely clueless about Islam and its imperative to subjugate the non Muslim world.
When this clown was Home Secretary, I gave her the benefit of doubt in her incompetence in dealing with Muslims, assuming that her hands were tied by the EUCHR.
Now I believe that Sharia May was just using EUCHR laws to give Muslims a free pass in their campaign to Islamise Britain.
gravenimage says
I’m afraid I agree, Charli.
PRCS says
She reminds me of a “Chatty Kathy” doll.
Each pull of the string results in the next in a series of prerecorded statements.
Steve Klein says
“Any attack on any innocent people is reprehensible and to be condemned, and this one is no different….”
Mr. Spencer, just a little food for thought.
You wrote: “The Finsbury Park Mosque has a record of jihad terror activity…”
And: “The worst aspect of this is that this attack appears to have been undertaken by someone who was overwhelmed with frustration at what the British government is doing to the country. If May really wants to stamp out “Islamophobia,” she could do it easily by working swiftly and honestly against the jihad threat, rather than accommodating and appeasing Islamic supremacists at every turn. It is that appeasement, not truthful counterterror analysis, that incites vigilantism.”
This is reminiscent of the Irgun, the “Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948.” Historian Martin Gilbert wrote:
“Denouncing the reprisals carried out by the Irgun, the Jewish Agency urged the Jews to exercise restraint. Jews continued to be killed throughout Palestine— leading to a total death toll of eighty by October (1936).”
The British ultimately issued their odious 1939 White Paper which abrogated the pledges to the Jews under the terms of their Mandate. British essentially cut off all Jewish immigration from Europe, leaving the Jews to the tender mercies of the German occupiers throughout Europe. Nonetheless, the Jewish Agency repeatedly condemned these reprisals, calling the Irgun methods terrorism and Irgun fighters terrorists. Even today, former Prime Minister Menachem Begin is considered a terrorist, but not by me.
In time of war, how are we to know who are innocent civilians as opposed to “enemy civilians?” Osama bin Laden insisted there were no innocents in the World Trade Center towers on 9/11/2001. USAAF and RAF firebombed German cities during the second world war in order to demoralize the German people to press their leaders to surrender. In response to Arab terrorism, the Irgun responded in kind. The British essentially conspired with Germany in the Final Solution as they cut off desperate Jews’ only refuge, Palestine. Were the British innocent? Who was innocent and who was guilty?
gravenimage says
No one should use Darren Osborne’s actions as a model, if that is what you are advocating.
JawsV says
OK, so we keep letting the Muslims run roughshod over us “Infidels” and mass-murder us? Is that what you’re advocating? The Mohammedans slaughter us over and over and over and we do nothing in return? Is that it? Coward. The only way to fight Islam is FIRE WITH FIRE.
LR says
You fight ‘Fire with Fire’ by continuing to stand up for free speech, and demanding the Gov’t do something to confront Jihadi violence.
WW2 resistance fighters didn’t rent trucks to mow down German’s…
JawsV says
Except the government isn’t doing anything about Jihadi violence and free speech has suddenly become hate speech. So, no help from the government.
The Moslem situation is different than WW2. The Germans (Nazis) were only in Germany. They were not among us in America and Britain. We had to go there to fight them. With the Moslems the fight is here in our own backyards. We’ve permitted them to infiltrate in large numbers. They’ll continue mass-murdering us in Jihads. It’s a new kind of war and it calls for new kinds of actions.
Barry says
Miss dodo needs to stamp out Islamic terrorism first…..than everything else dissipates….
common sense says
No Islam= zero ‘Islamophobia’. Polliticians= zero credibility. Leaders must protect their home.
They’ll miss the root cause until that Satanic black flag flies above parliment. Watch it happen they are closer than we think. Look at it.
Dum Spiro says
A SIMPLE 5 POINT PLAN FOR MUSLIMS TO END “ISLAMOPHOBIA”
(courtesy of Robert Spencer
(peace and blessings be upon him!))
MUSLIMS SHOULD:
1: FOCUS ON VIOLENT MUSLIMS
Focus their indignation on Muslims committing violent acts in the name of Islam, not on non-Muslims reporting on those acts.
2: RENOUNCE EFFORTS TO INSTALL SHARIA IN NON-MUSLIM COUNTRIES
Renounce – definitively – not just terrorism, but any intention to replace the US Constitution, or the British constitution, or the constitutions of any non-Muslim state with Islamic sharia law – even by peaceful means.
3: TEACH MUSLIMS ABOUT PEACEFUL COEXISTENCE
Teach Muslims the imperative of coexisting peacefully – as equals – with non-Muslims on an indefinite basis.
4: TEACH AGAINST JIHAD AND ISLAMIC SUPREMACISM
Begin comprehensive international programs in mosques all over the world to teach against the ideas of violent jihad and Islamic supremacism.
5: HELP IDENTIFY JIHADISTS IN THE WEST
Actively work with Western law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend jihadists within Western Muslim communities.
If Muslims will do these five things – voila – “Islamophobia” will vanish…
— Spero
Salome says
6. REALISE THAT THE POINTS ABOVE ARE INCOMPATIBLE WITH ISLAM AND CONVERT TO SOMETHING PEACEFUL.
roger eric woodhouse says
In other words ‘rewrite the Koran’?
Bob says
Oh, DS, you will have your little joke!
Savvy Kafir says
This plan is completely impractical because, on the whole, Muslims will never agree to it. Islam was built, from the ground up, to be a savage, imperialistic political system, as well as a religion. Hatred of non-Muslims is THE central theme of the Qur’an. All devout, well-informed Muslims know this.
We were not able to talk the Nazis out of their core beliefs, and we won’t be able to do it with Muslims either.
vlparker says
This was inevitable. When your traitorous leaders do everything in their power to appease the enemy and destroy your country it is only a matter of time before someone takes it upon themselves to respond. This was not the proper way to respond, but it is no surprise.
Dum Spiro says
KLM, Muslims — KLM!
That means Kuffar Lives Matter! — not “kill ’em”!
— Spero
Dum Spiro says
I agree with this. Everyone should…
— Spero
JawsV says
When they’ve been mass-murdering us since 9/11 for the past 16 years it’s the only way to respond. FIRE WITH FIRE. Islam doesn’t understand anything else.
Daniel Triplett says
We killed millions of German and Japanese non-combatant men, women, and children. We wouldn’t have won the war if we didn’t.
Here’s a quote from General Curtis LeMay, America’s longest serving 4-Star General in history; father of Strategic Area Bombing, and later the Commander of USAF Strategic Air Command. He’s the one American credited with the deaths of more people than any other; over 350,000 enemy soldiers and civilians at a minimum:
“I think there are many times when it would be most efficient to use nuclear weapons. However, the public opinion in this country and throughout the world throw up their hands in horror when you mention nuclear weapons, just because of the propaganda that’s been fed to them.
As far as casualties were concerned I think there were more casualties in the first attack on Tokyo with incendiaries than there were with the first use of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima. The fact that it’s done instantaneously, maybe that’s more humane than incendiary attacks, if you can call any war act humane. I don’t, particularly, so to me there wasn’t much difference. A weapon is a weapon and it really doesn’t make much difference how you kill a man. If you have to kill him, well, that’s the evil to start with and how you do it becomes pretty secondary. I think your choice should be which weapon is the most efficient and most likely to get the whole mess over with as early as possible.”
LeMay also said: “I’ll tell you what war is all about. It’s about killing people. If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting. There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn’t bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders.”
Here’s a quote from our Allied friend, Sir Arthur Harris, Commander of RAF Bomber Command during WWII:
“The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naïve theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive…should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany.
… the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.”
TheOldOligarch says
Well, it had to happen eventually. The sooner the real (reciprocal) violence begins the sooner the entire mess can be sorted out. As Robert has been saying for years, a political solution to this problem would require the sweeping out, wholesale, of the entire current political establishment, which will simply never happen. That being the case, a state of civil war between Muslims and non-Muslims is inevitable, since the problem of Jihad violence against infidels will only get worse with time and will never be addressed by our leaders. The sooner it starts the better really since every additional day that passes the demographic situation only gets worse.
Also, one of the main problems at the moment is that the government is afraid of what the Muslims will do, but is not afraid of what we will do. They are reasonably confident that the British people can be counted upon to behave in a civilized manner, but worry constantly that any perceived slight could set off hair-trigger Muslim rioting and burn a dozen cities.This is why the law is applied so feebly to Muslims. If they get convinced that all this talk of ‘eventually we’ll take matters into our own hands’ is more than bluff they might actually have to start factoring our potential violence into their calculations. Who knows, maybe we’ll get a miracle and the government will start to actually deal with this to try and forestall a civil war.
gravenimage says
We have a heritage of civilized democracy. If instead of using it we throw that out in favor of random street violence, this is ugly and profoundly foolish.
TheOldOligarch says
Instead of what? Voting out the traitors in government? Yes, I made clear that is the preferred option, but guess what, that will never happen. Enough people vote tribally at election times for the main parties, both of whom will never address this problem, and there are enough disloyal foreigners in the voting pool already that this is an impossibility.
So what is the alternative? There is already de-facto no protection against Muslims in the country. The government lets hundreds of head-chopping foreign combatants into the country and is perfectly content to just wait for them to kill us. Their response to Muslims gang raping thousands of young English girls was ”well, the English won’t get violent if we don’t do anything about it, whereas the Muslims might get violent if we try to, so just let them get on with it”.
Something has to give, the present situation is intolerable.
JawsV says
Turnabout is fair play. — Shakespeare.
Keys says
JawsV-
If JW’s primary and knowlegable posters, including Robert Spencer, condone or promote violence, what do you think might happen to this JW site?
JW, unlike the ISIS “Dabiq” (now “Rumiyah”) on-line magazine, which promotes violence against kaffirs, and somehow is not shut down, because of the deep web (however that works), must continue to get out the truth about Islam and what is happening throughout the world because of Mohammadan doctrines.
Keys says
JawsV-
However, I was pleased with gravenimage’s comment above at 3:16 pm including:
“There may come a time when nothing is left to us but fighting in the streets–I do not feel we have come to that point. There are many other ways to fight Jihad before we are reduced to adopting Islam’s own savagery.”
JawsV says
I don’t speak for RS. I speak for myself. We have to fight back against Islam. Maybe you’ve noticed? Or, we continue letting them mass-murder us and hold “Je suis” vigils with candles and flowers? Is that what you’re advocating? Also, fighting back isn’t “savagery.” It’s fighting back against an oppressor. You know, like how we fought back against the Nazis? But, I guess that was “savagery,” right? We should have let the Nazis keep killing innocent people, is that what you think?
Bob says
But is there anyone to replace islam-loving TM to replacebher. Certainly not Corbyn who’d let the world i…
gravenimage says
I still disagree with those who think that the best thing to do is adopt the hideous tactics of Islam.
Salome says
Indeed, graven, we’re better than that, I’d like to think. Further, it is entirely counterproductive to our cause as it only gives Muslims the opportunity to be the victims. This problem will have to be dealt with politically, legally and as peacefully as humanly possible.
gravenimage says
Thank you, Salome.
Mark Swan says
You are right gravenimage, let us defeat them with the truth.
roger eric woodhouse says
Yes and our police will stand by and watch them burn our cities . Even guard them while they do it
Xen says
I live in Birmingham, UK. I see the Muslim Problem we have here, and it is a big one. I must also say that I agree with 99% of what Robert Spencer talks about. I agree with his scholarship and analysis of the jihad threat we face here in the West.
But we have to also acknowledge the growing threat of white supremacism and racist people out there. I am not saying that all people who critisise Islam are racists or white supremacists, indeed I am critical of islam as well, and I ackwoledge it is not in the same order of magnitude in terms of the amount of incidents, but IT IS a growing problem, bigger than is acknowledged.
I am a Christian of Greek Cypriot descent. If you did not know me, from a distance you would think I was ‘Asian’, as the English like to call all people of brown colour. So I have seen the growing ignorance and racism (more than usual) in the UK grow in the last 10 years or so.
We need to reject all forms of white supremacism and racism, otherwise it will undermine the effort to convince people of the truth that the threat of Islam brings.
Probably from the other comments I keep on reading on this website, this post will not be popular.
Peace.
gravenimage says
This is a potential threat. I think it is small compared to the tsunami of Jihad, though.
Davegreybeard says
@Xen
“But we have to also acknowledge the growing threat of white supremacism and racist people out there.”
First of all I believe this is a made up threat to silence those who speak up about Islam.
Where is there any evidence of this “growing threat?” Where are the bombings and murders committed in the name of “White Supremacism?” There are so few as to be almost nonexistent.
YOU would be branded a “racist” and an ally of “White Surpemacists” by your statements about the “Muslim Problem.”
Don’t fall for the ruse, there is no “growing White Surpremacist problem,” it’s just a trick to shut people up for fear of being called a “racist.”.
gravenimage says
+1
Mark Swan says
Absolutely Davegreybeard
roger eric woodhouse says
The British are very tolerant of immigrants of all colour. That is not the problem .You as a Christian must know that Islam is a threat to everyone . Islam alone is the cause and supposed rise in any ‘racism’ perceived or otherwise. This is the tragedy of open door immigratiion to this country . Everyone of colour will be targetted when the sh&t hits the fan . This is what we here are warning against . Our leaders are not interested in listening though. Islam must be removed from our shores
Mark Swan says
Very Well Stated roger eric woodhouse, Islam is not a racial Problem.
Jayell says
Good even ing, Xen.
“So I have seen the growing ignorance and racism (more than usual) in the UK grow in the last 10 years or so.”
What you are referring to here is a defensive reaction from the indigenous population against what is perceived by many to be imported destructive influences undermining the character and quality of life in the UK. It is NOT ‘ignorance’ because it is based on real, tangible experience that sadly can be backed up official statistics that a lot of the time do not make pleasant reading by any standards. Since you seem to want to introduce a crude racist element into the discussion, your reference to ‘white supremacism’ is frankly insolent and insulting by using the bland blanket-term ‘white’ no doubt to mean the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic-Nordic element of the population who actually built the UK up from nothing over thousands of years and without whose talents, efforts and history you would no doubt have had no desire to live in these rather bleak islands. Like any identifiable group of people on the planet, there is a little bit more and unique to the British people than simply being ‘white’, a crass generalisation than suggest an ignorance of the human condition in general and the character of the people with whom you have come to live in particular. For whilst many peoples around the globe are ‘white’; only a tiny percentage of these possess the DNA and attributes of those traditionally associated with the inhabitants of the British Isles over the last 2-3 millennia. And since this group of people developed the UK into its present state with its history and still form the vast majority of the population, it is democratically logical (and backed up by UN resolutions) that their cultural and ethical standards should prevail in these territories. If anyone finds that they have a problem with that kind of logic, perhaps they should ask themselves if they are living in the right environment.
David says
More likely Islam will stamp out Theresa May and her ilk, very soon…
PRCS says
A voice of reason.
JawsV says
Finally, someone with a pair instead of the kowtowing submitting groveling cowards permitting the Muslims and Islam to mass-murder and take over their country.
Ade says
There is very little coverage of Finsbury on Jihad Watch ..
And no headlines here feature the words “Finsbury Mosque”
Why is this please Robert ? ..
After all, this is a significant and unique event and there is much to be said about it
Evosse1314 says
What do you think this article is about?. Will give you a few hours to consider the question.
JawsV says
There’s plenty of Finsbury mosque coverage on JW. Go to the “Search Jihad Watch” feature and type in Finsbury mosque. You’ll find 55 articles.
Ade says
“This Government will act to stamp out extremist and hateful ideology,
both across society and on the internet.”
GREAT !!!! … but we will still allow them to pray and to fast right ?
gravenimage says
I would of course be *very* surprised if May was talking about doing anything about Jihad terror here.
PRCS says
Nope, just “extremists”; whatever in Hell that means.
Tom P says
Theresa May is apparently an islamaphobiaphobe.
billybob says
I read the response of London’s Muslim mayor Sadiq Khan. He said simply “Terrorism is terrorism”.
In other words, it’s all the same, whether inspired by ISIS or by this guy we discuss here.
Well I have news for Mr. Khan – it is NOT all the same, and as I said in a comment above, what happened last night was not an act of terrorism. By definition, terrorism is a political act, and a means to an end. There is no evidence, and it is unlikely that, the perpetrator belonged to any political groups with some goal to be achieved through terrorism.
However, even a single person can commit acts of terrorism if it is part of a plan towards a goal. This individual, however, could not possibly have had a plan because he would know he was going to be arrested immediately. Clearly, he didn’t flee. So no plan. No goal. As an act of terrorism, it got him nowhere. It was merely an act of vengeance – if that.
In fact, at this point we don’t know his motive, or even if he had one. We cannot rule out that he may have been drunk, or on drugs, or had mechanical difficulties with his vehicle, such that he was not in full control of it. Now people at the scene have stated he said things about Muslims, but we cannot take that into account. It is just hearsay and rumour, and anyway Muslims are known to lie. In fact, if it was an accident, I have no doubt that the Muslims would lie about it anyhow. They would be very anxious to paint it as some kind of terror attack to try to take some of the heat off themselves.
Ace-of-Clubs says
This one incident, in which the man drove at a crowd who were attending to an elderly man who had already collapsed on the pavement, is being put on a par with the recent atrocities in Manchester and London (2 attacks in the capital this year). The liberal lefties are leaping on it as a chance to show that far-right extremism is an equal threat to that posed by Islam.
The word terrorism is being used, when we actually know nothing about Darren Osborne, who may just have been drunk or drugged. As another contributor said, it could even been a set-up by secret services in which Osborne is the “patsy” figure.
The police were on the scene within minutes.
Shame it took their colleagues in Rotherham over ten years to start investigating the rape and abuse of underage white girls by gangs of Pakistani Muslim men.
Response times tell you everything you need to know about the UK.
The vile Jeremy Corbyn was quickly on the scene, but he hasn’t bothered to visit survivors of the London and Manchester attacks. Finsbury Park mosque is known for being a hotbed of jihadist preachers, the dreaded Abu Hamza was once the chief imam there.
To the spineless liberal leftie elites in Britain, one Muslim life (which seems to have ended in spite of Osborne’s actions) is more important that the 36 lives lost in the three Muslim terror attacks we have had this year in the UK.
JawsV says
The spineless liberal leftie elites in Britain have lost all reason and sense of proportion. It’s like a mass psychosis is taking place. They’re all nuts.
BLC says
Maybe Theresa May will be stamped out herself. She’s not that popular and she’s losing popularity every day.
Bob says
But who among the present ‘shower’ replaces her? Jacob Rees Mogg is the only possibillity who comes to mind.
Matthieu Baudin says
“… The Finsbury Park Mosque has a record of jihad terror activity..”
A level of Jihad terrorist activity that was so high the Mosque ought to have been closed years ago.
No Fear says
Is there footage of the incident?
Felix Quigley says
You ask is there footage and indeed there is, there must be much footage, because this street and area around these mosques are surveiled very closely indeed. To tell the public what happened precisely that is the very first evidence you would produce. The Muslims, the police, the state, the Media are not producing any of that footage. Perhaps the footage does not bear out the “narrative” and perhaps the footage (which they have) shows a driver confronted by a horde of Muslims, a driver who panics and somehow loses control of the vehicle. All of that is possible. Why do people (and even on Jihadwatch) reach conclusions before being able to see the vital evidence of video.
One leading commenter on Jihadwatch has called the driver a “thug” and this kind of statement is the very worst disservice that can be done to our struggle to defeat Islam. He shhould withdraw this and Robert Spencer should state his personal opposition to calling this unknown man a “thug”…and this for very many reasons too numerous to state here. There must be unity created among all of those who are fighting to defeat Islam and that unity must allow free expression and open political debate!
Robin Banks says
…declared that he wanted to “kill all Muslims” Said the entirely reliable mosque members at the scene.
Matthieu Baudin says
Some mosque witnesses also said that there were two other people in the car with him who escaped when they detained the driver, yet I haven’t heard any mention of other suspects on the run in the police reports. Once the dust settles it will interesting to separate the fact from the fiction.
tim gallagher says
How about the mega lie, or maybe it’s just naïve idiocy on her part, that May tells when she talks about “the precious bonds of solidarity” in British society. As if! There is no solidarity from Islam, from Muslims, who see non-Muslims as enemies and who hate all non-Muslims and who only want to impose Islam on everyone. That’s the essence of the problem. And it’s all straight from the basic texts of Islam. So May is an idiot if she can’t see that, with Islam, there is no solidarity at all. She is living in a state of delusion. About this man driving into the Muslims outside the mosque, I’ve been wondering when someone or some group would start to fight back violently after all the Muslim terrorist attacks. I mean you can’t just go on fighting against violent Islam with just words. Unfortunately, you can’t fight against a violent enemy with pacifism. It just won’t work. Not the way Nazism was defeated and not the way Islam will be defeated. I also thought that that Muslim terrorist truck driver killed over eighty innocent people in Nice, so I personally have trouble caring that this man has killed one Muslim outside the mosque. Israel seems to deal with Muslim terrorism in a tough but necessary way.
Bob says
TM has all too clearly not read the ‘holy’ koran. If she had, she’d realise that as a Christian she’s regarded by islam as a kafur, an enemy to be be beheaded if she refuses to accept islam. On the other hand, perhaps she has read it and has decided to settle for dhimmitude – and assumes that the rest of us’re prepared to follow her ‘lead’!
PRCS says
Germany’s military forces were defeated and it’s government then surrendered in 1945.
Nazism, the ideology–followed by millions of people around the world at the time–isn’t a religion, and though significantly diminished with Germany’s defeat, exists to this day.
Islam, on the other hand, is a religion which its billion+ followers around the world believe is God’s literal, infallible and eternal word.
Not sure how military force will defeat the ideology.
Schrödinger says
An expected response from PM Dhimmi May, peddling the very en vogue Islamofauxbia meme. The real problem, Ms May, is Kuffarphobia — islam’s intrinsic, central and immutable theme of intolerance and incitement of hatred and violence towards all non muslims and every manifestation of “unbelief”, hence it’s compete inability to accept pluralism, adamant rejection of norms of human rights and utter incompatibility with the modern world and any notion of multicultural harmony.
Police, we’re informed, are investigating whether the perpetrator had any “extremist or racist views”, overlooking he targeted muslims — not random “brown” people nor muslim apostates. Islam is not a race; it is (or purports to be) a religion. However it’s theology and ideology does very much serve the very racist motivations of very many muslims.
The Salafist mosque’s imam is being praised by the media for “bravely intervening and saving the life of the attacker”. That he may have done. However it’s relevant to take note of Maududi’s tafsir, or commentary, on K2.118: ‘One may resort to prudent concealment of one’s faith (Taquiya). This means that it is lawful for a believer, in the grip of the enemies of islam and in imminent danger of severe wrong and persecution, to keep his faith concealed and to behave in such a manner as to create the impression that he is on the same side as his enemies’. Of course he didn’t need to nor could he entirely conceal his faith — just part of it.
We’re also yet to see and hear the usual shrug of his shoulder and glib, pro forma response from London’s mayor Mujahid Sadiq Khan — only this time directed to his muslim brethren — that “it’s simply life in a big city so get used to it”. The Jihad just goes on and on.
Georg says
B A C O N : The gateway drug.
Georg says
“If May really wants to stamp out “Islamophobia,” she could do it easily by working swiftly and honestly against the jihad threat, rather than accommodating and appeasing Islamic supremacists at every turn. It is that appeasement, not truthful counterterror analysis, that incites vigilantism. If she dealt with the jihad threat in any effective way, then there would be no more attacks like this one. She and her government, due to their supine response to jihad, bear the ultimate responsibility for the horrific incident at the Finsbury Park Mosque.”
11/10 analysis. As the pressure builds, they’ll further ratchet down on the very things needing space for resolution. We warned them, they had their chance, made their decision, and it has begun at their own making.
TJ Sellers says
Britain deserves whatever comes their way. The recent elections just showed just how out of touch they really are…. It was a nice place. Unfortunately, it’s over for them, and they did it to themselves. Who would have thought that Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic would emerge as the brains of Europe?
tim gallagher says
I just happen to be reading Paul Johnson’s biography of Winston Churchill. With all this debate going on above about when we non-Muslims start to become violent in response to Muslim terrorist attacks, which is going to be necessary at some point, I thought these words of Churchill, during WWII, were relevant, along with Johnson’s comments: “Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival”. The last words were of deadly significance, and felt to be so. For Britain was not facing defeat in the sense that it had been defeated in the American War of Independence. It was facing extinction as a free country.”(page 112). And that’s exactly what Britain and all non-Muslim countries are facing from Islam. The end of our freedoms, democracy and entire civilised way of life. It truly is them or us. We have to win this war.
Georg says
When counterjihadists warned there’d one day be daily attacks they laughed at us. Same for when May was warned British troops would be on the streets, or when Robinson warned there would be reprisals. An existential fight for Western Civilization is on its way. We’ll see precursors in places like Brussels, which will be majority Muslim in decades. Watch for streets and places being renamed, the adzhan, and effective blasphemy laws. Watch their communities curl further inward with cradle to grave enclaves. What they call “Islamophobia”, is, to paraphrase Paul Weston, “Islamorealism”.
tim gallagher says
I agree with Weston’s saying Islamophobia is really Islamorealism.. It is merely being awake and aware about Islam’s barbaric evil. I loathe Islam because it is barbaric and evil and full of murderous hatred for us non-Muslims. It’s strange this criticism of Islamophobia. Everyone accepts that Nazism was evil. Thus, if anyone says they are Naziphobic, that they loathe Nazism, everyone would say, “well, of course, we are all Naziphobic.” But, though Islam is evil and barbaric, there’s supposed to be something wrong with being Islamophobic. I suppose the problem is many people, especially political and media types, refuse to face up to the obvious barbaric evil of Islam, despite the endless evidence of its evil. They should have all woken up by now. Every non-Muslim should have woken up.
Savvy Kafir says
Agreed. The West has never been engaged in a war in which the consequences of a loss were so dire. (At least, not since the last Muslim invasions of Europe were thwarted in the 17th Century.)
If we lose World War III — the war that devout Muslims have been waging for years now — European countries (and eventually the U.S., Canada, Australia, etc.) will one day be virtually indistinguishable from Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, in terms of human rights, culture, etc.
We cannot afford to lose this war. It will be incredibly complicated & difficult, because the enemy is living among us in the West, in large numbers. But we need to be committed to winning this conflict, which has been forced upon us, no matter what it takes.
SB says
She’s either paid, her life is threatened, or she’s dumb as a dingle berry.
Sarah says
Yep, you;re spot on. One of them has to be the truth.
And despite which answer it is – she is still accountable. She is still responsible. As an adult human being who is responsible for the consequences of her actions and ESPECIALLY as the Prime Minister of the UK.
Whether she’s as dumb as a box of rocks, or scared for her life, or (and God forbid here) being paid to say and do this, it doesn’t change the fact that she is still accountable.
The best case scenario for her is that she is a coward. Or too stupid to be allowed to operate a potato peeler (which is alarming for the UK). Or that she is a cunning, sly, treasonous traitor. None of it looks good for her.
Peacemaker says
Of course, both bacon and Jihadi are terrorist and extremist.
Nick says
You can never stamp out Islamophobia because Islamophobia is really islamorealism. In every country the Muslim resides, the Muslim generates hatred and resentment, the Hindus, skilhs, Buddhists and atheists hate them or at the very least dislike them.
The Muslim generates resentment wherever they go, because they are violent, aggressive, intolerant supremacists.
Here is a good way to reduce Islamophobia (Islamorealism), don’t have any Muslims in YOUR country.
Felix Quigley says
UK: Theresa May vows to stamp out “Islamophobia”
JUNE 19, 2017 10:51 AM BY ROBERT SPENCER 198 COMMENTS
A non-Muslim who reportedly declared that he wanted to “kill all Muslims” plowed into a crowd at the notorious jihad terror-tied Finsbury Park Mosque. Any attack on any innocent people is reprehensible and to be condemned, and this one is no different.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/06/uk-theresa-may-vows-to-stamp-out-islamophobia
No not condemned Robert Spencer of Jihadwatch. Understood first of all and no condemnation from us. Absolutely not condemn, voice your reservations about method and timing etcetera but only inside the context of unconditional defence.
We are all in the same boat and we have all been effected by Islam. He decided to fight Islam by violence and we are not opposed to using violence to defeat Islam, but we have to disagree with his method which is not apropriate at this point.
But here is the thing. He and others (and there have been others) must be defended unconditionally against the British capitalist state represented by May and Corbyn, and against Muslims who represent in one way or another the Jihad
But if that method of opposing Jihad is not apropriate then what is? The first thing is that there must be unity among all the anti-Jihadist forces, a unity which will allow discussion and debate to take place.
At this particular point that is the key issue. There must be unity among all of the anti-Jihadists. This means in effect we defend him unconditionally against May, Corbyn and Islam.
Sadly that has not been offered by too many on this website and on this thread.
Mysterex says
I’m keen to donate cash towards looking after his kids and/or helping fund his defence. I hope a fund is set up.
My only other comment is that his planning must have been a bit poor.
Felix Quigley says
I have said from the beginning of this on my Facebook Page “Where is the video?”
“There must be video since this Mosque is closely monitored by themselves and the police. So where is the video? And the answer is it is not REPEAT NOT being produced, but the very first thing you would produce IS THE VIDEO from the security cameras. THIS IS MOST LIKELY A NERVOUS DRIVER, A 49 YEAR OLD THEY TELL US, BEING CONFRONTED BY A HORDE OF MUSLIMS EMERGING AND TOTALLY UP TIGHT AFTER AN HOUR OF RAMADAN”
martin says
It is truely sickening, the number of lying muslilms bbc, sky news etc are fawning over and getting onto news slots.
Bob says
Taqqiya…
Peter Evans says
It’s not only the Jihad it’s also Brick by Brick. I have been telling people that since the late 70’s.
Kasey says
She should be congratulated for its elimination as long as she does replace it with a full awareness of ISLAMOREALITY in all its forms around the world.
That way, the deceptive term related to the unreality of a phobia will be gone for good, and replaced by awareness and knowledge of what Islam it involved with all around the World.
TassieR says
«Any attack on any innocent people is to be condemned, and this one is no different» – what a noble thought! Alas, there were no more innocent peoples in the mosque, than, say, in Berliner Sportpalast during the Goebbels rant about “total war”. The Sportpalast audience was exactly the kind of “innocents” who are waging now their total Islamic war on the West, and “this war is no different”, indeed.
Sarah says
My blood is boiling right now. That useless fool states:
“She branded the attack in north London “every bit as sickening” as recent Islamist attacks but insisted Britain would not be broken by terror.”
What a POS. How does she sleep at night?
Because last I checked, in the last month ALONE, there were 145 terror attacks committed by MUSLIMS wherein 1,350 men women and children were slaughtered.
There have been what, at least 30 BRITISH CITIZENS slaughtered on BRITISH SOIL in the last month alone- most of them LITTLE CHILDREN.
And Theresa Fucking May thinks hating Islam is as big a crime as Islamic Terror.
I have something to say to her. Theresa, TELL THAT brain dead statement to the mother’s and father’s of those little kids from Manchester.
I dare you to stand there in front of little Saffie-Rose’s parents and family members and explain to them how when she was blown to pieces by a Muslim male after attending an Ariana Grande concert, that the miserable, agonizing, terror-filled death that the poor little sweetheart experienced – was as BAD as someone like me saying ‘Islam is bad, Islam is pure evil’.
Go on Theresa. I dare you. I dare you to stand in front of the loved ones of ANY victim from ANYWHERE in the WORLD who has been blown to bits, or stabbed, or run over, or shot by some evil Muslim and tell them that their death, their suffering, their misery and fear – is completely and totally comparable to some other human being saying ‘Islam is rotten to the core’.
I hate Islam. It is a poisonous cancer, slowly rotting the world from within. I can say this, I can say other things like ‘Muslims should be held to account for propping up, supporting and devoting themselves to Islam, for all the atrocities that Muslims do, around the world, every singe day, in the name of Islam, for Islam. And I can say these things – and sleep beautifully at night.
Can you sleep well at night, Theresa? Could you go talk to little Saffie-Rose’s parents, tell them how her completely unacceptable murder is akin to my disgust for Islam and still sleep at night?
Oh I bet you can’t. You can’t even face the Grenfell Fire survivors and the family member’s of the victims. You hide away from them as much as you can get away with, without losing that job you’ve coveted so hard.
How can you live with yourself? I’ll focus on the Manchester attack, with complete respect to every other British victim of Islam before and since. Because Manchester should have been the final wake up call. Children, Theresa. Kids.
Megan Hurley – 15.
Courtney Boyle – 18
Phillip Tron
Wendy Fawell
Elaine MacIver
Eilidh MacLeod – 14
Chloe Rutherford – 15
Liam Curry – 19
Sorrel Leczkowski – 14
Nell Jones – 14
Martyn Hett
Michelle Kiss
Jane Tweddle-Taylor
Marcin Klis
Angelika Klis
Kelly Brewster
Olivia Campbell – 15
John Atkinson
Alison Howe
Lisa Lees
Georgina Callander – 18
Saffie-Rose Roussous – 8
Look at that list. Look at those kids. Little Saffie-Rose was 8. She hadn’t even had a chance to hit puberty, to have her first boyfriend, to dream about her career. She’s dead. So are 21 others.
They said that some of the bodies had been reduced to particles – identification came from ascertaining who was missing. Because there wasn’t enough left to identify some of them. One little girl, had NAILS PULLED FROM HER FACE by a homeless guy who was standing near when it happened.
Do you want to stand in front of that poor man, who will NEVER erase the images in his mind, of having to pull nails from the face of a screaming, traumatized small girl – that what he saw, what he endured – what that poor little girl endured – is just AS BAD as someone saying ‘Islam is a cancer’???
You sicken me.
Would YOU still say Islamaphobia is an equal crime to Muslim Terrorism that ‘needs stamping out’ if YOU had to pull the nails from the face of a small child, that were put there, by a Muslim who set off a bomb deliberately aimed at small kids?
I reject your statement. I reject the hollow power you try so hard to put behind the insult of ‘Islamaphobe’. Call me Islamaphobic til you lose your voice, for all I care. Because when I lay my head down to sleep tonight, I will know that today, I was honest. I was a real human being who spoke the truth and who CARES for innocent little kids. If I get hit by a truck tomorrow and die – I will die KNOWING that my ‘Islamaphobia’ has made me a far better human being than you and ALL of your ilk, combined. I will rest in peace for eternity with that knowledge.
You cannot. And since you’re the one who believes in God and all – perhaps you might want to think about how that’ conversation would go. When its your time for you to meet your Maker. Just how are you going to explain to him that you danced on the graves of innocent children that you were paid obscenely well, to protect and serve? Good luck with that, you’ll need it.
Thankfully, I am not British. Because you will never represent me, in any way, shape or form. You are a vile excuse for a woman, a Prime Minister, a Christian and a human being. How dare you.
Peter Evans says
Well said Sarah !!!!!!!!!!!
Bob says
Does this sitevreach TM, because it should!
Bob says
Does this sitev each TM, because it should!
Aussie Infidel says
May commented, “[This attack] seeks to drive us apart and to break the precious bonds of solidarity and citizenship which we share in this country. We will not let this happen.”…
Is May simply ignorant of Islam and believes it is ‘a religion of peace’? Or does she have her head in the sand, hoping the problem will simply go away, if she continues to appease the Muslims?
What bonds does May imagine exist between the Muslims and ordinary British citizens? Is she going to ban the verses of hatred in the Quran, which are the root cause of all these attacks?
“Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah, except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.” (Q3:28).
“Indeed, we are disassociated from you (Jews and Christians) and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone.” (Q60:4).
Will she also ask Muslims to abandon their doctrine of jihad or ‘holy war’ against infidels? (Q2:190-193, 4:74, 8:24, 8:39, 9:5, 9:14-15, 9:29, 9:73, 9:123, etc). But I doubt they would be willing to agree.
And what about the Sharia, which compels Muslims to “detest unbelievers and be hard against them, while accepting the destiny of Allah”? (The Reliance of the Traveller, a manual of Islamic Law, W59.2).
If Muslims abandoned their ideology of hatred and hostility toward unbelievers, British citizens might be willing to accept them. But that would amount to apostasy which is punishable by death (Q4:89). Besides, Islam is perfect and therefore unalterable (Q5:3, 11:1 etc).
PRCS says
One won’t know until someone asks her—in public.
Lon Spector says
I bet the attack was “False Flag.” Since when did the European white male “grow a pair?”
Fordstar says
Brits—-why don’t you just roll over and accept Islam and Sharia. That way maybe the rest of the world will get a good look at what happened to the freedom bought by the blood of so many and might just wake up enough to counter the world wide threat of Islam. if you don’t rise up and get rid of your political idiots you deserve what is coming.
Carolyne says
I do not have time to read every comment this morning, but I have not seen the name of the perpetrator disclosed by the police. That leads me to believe that this man is named Mohammed or a variation thereof. There was a video of him but I couldn’t see him clearly enough to see if he had one big long bushy eyebrow and a beard. Knowing how the leaders of Western Europe are in thrall to Islam, I would not be surprised if he were a Muslim. In fact, I will be surprised if he is not.
Peter Evans says
It would not surprise me either Carolyne not one bit. You can not rely on so called wintess at the scene they were giving different accounts of the whole incident and of course complaining about the Police again for not turning up for 30 min, they were there in seconds. They do get very emotional indignant and there was a lot of anti Brit feeling amongst the early crowd and even later with some Leaders.. Leaders by the way were not in attendance at the Muslim activated incidents.
dragaozao says
UK is doomed and, I´m sorry to say, they worked for it. RIP.
Peter Evans says
You can not rely
Peter Evans says
Islamophobia what a joke I bet that word was made up by some Leftist Fact Denyist Snowflake.
Phobia = an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.
I dont think that the vast majority of Westerners have Islamophobia more likely Islamicterrorphobia.
There you are I just introduced a new word into the language !!
Aussie Infidel says
Peter, The term ‘Islamophobia’ was invented some decades ago by the International Institute of Islamic Thought. Ironically, it was so named, because the IIIT recognised how successful the term ‘homophobia’ was for the LGBT lobby.
http://www.iiit.org/about.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Institute_of_Islamic_Thought
cretius says
Definition of ‘Islamophobia’
It is sad that Western politicians on the political Left continue to refuse the reality of the true Muslim definition of ‘Islamophobia’.
‘Islamophobia’, n. any comment or discussion of the teachings of the Islamic belief system, Islam’s history, Islam’s related cultural practices, the reality of Sharia Law, the history and nature of Islam’s prophet by any and all non-believers (infidels, kaffirs).
Appeasement is a disgraced philosophy. Leftist governments practiced it in the 1930s and that resulted in WW II. Apparently May and the political left wish to repeat the experience as they enable aggressive Islam to subvert secular democracies. Such hypocracy! Suppress discussion and fair comment on Islam while enabling those actively working to overthrow the state!
Lydia says
If the sentence would end without the ‘phobia,’ it would actually make sense!
Like I said, there is an agenda from the top of the pyramid.
All of this will be used for their actual goal; coming after Christians just like
during the holocaust. This is just the yellow brick road they are paving in
that direction. That is why none of this makes any sense on the planet of
logic and common sense, and those who are still able to think critically know
this. It is their agenda, it has been in the works for a long time.
It has begun.