A controversy has broken out over the web series “Islamicize Me,” and I feel partially responsible. That’s not because I had anything to do with the conception of the series — I didn’t, although I am in it (stay tuned) — but because it was inspired by a real incident with which I was involved. David Wood tweeted:
FUN FACT: “Islamicize Me” was inspired by the true story of Elton Simpson, Nadir Soofi, & Decarus Thomas, two of whom were converts to Islam. Simpson & Soofi were killed after launching an attack on @jihadwatchRS & @PamelaGeller. Wrong to mock?
Simpson and Soofi tried to murder Pamela Geller and me, of course, because we mocked Islam by staging the AFDI/Jihad Watch Muhammad Art Exhibit and Cartoon Contest in Garland, Texas on May 3, 2015. After that event I heard from a great many Christians, some of whom had been close friends, who remonstrated with me for daring to mock Muhammad and Islam, and saying that to do so was against the Christian requirement to charitable and respectful to all people. In that instance my responses centered around the fact that jihadis had previously murdered the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists, and that to submit to bullying only encourages more bullying, which would be bad for Christians and for society in general; “Islamicize Me” is different, however, in that it is not a direct response to violent intimidation.
This is a controversy among evangelical Christians, but it has a wider significance as well. And so enter the Christian apologist James White, whom I debated last year on the topic “Is True Islam Always Violent Islam?” — you can listen to that debate here. Dr. White and I have also had some unpleasant encounters revolving around his close friendship with Muslim Brotherhood imam Yasir Qadhi, whom he calls a “kindred spirit.”
White is exercised over “Islamicize Me” because he thinks it is both uncharitable and ineffective. He wrote this to David on Facebook:
…With that in mind, then, please make sure your response is focused upon the real issue, which can be seen by simply reviewing a few texts (there are many more):
“but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.”
(1 Peter 3:15–16)“But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.”
(Ephesians 5:3–4)“Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.”
(Ephesians 5:11–12)“The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.”
(2 Timothy 2:24–26)Please explain how you can present in visual form what you did regarding, for example, breast-feeding, in light of these texts and their meanings.
Finally, please explain to us the functional disjunction you have made between attacking Islam and presenting the gospel. That is, there is nothing at all of the gospel in these videos. They are meant to mock and offend and shock, but they are not meant to provide the truth so that upon abandoning error the Muslim might know where to go and what to do. Possibly you believe people will then go and watch other videos and that should be enough. I have been very committed over the years to making sure the focus of my ministry to all groups, and to Islam as well, is gospel-focused and centered….
So here we have essentially two arguments:
1) Christians shouldn’t engage in “filthiness and silly talk,” but instead “be kind to all,” which White believes rules out mocking the ridiculous statements that are attributed to Muhammad in the Hadith; and
2) Christians shouldn’t try to persuade Muslims of the falsity of Islam without presenting Christianity to them as well.
As for the first, I don’t accept White’s claim that the “Islamicize Me” series is the kind of “filthiness and silly talk” that St. Paul had in mind, or that it is actually uncharitable. Although it is full of slapstick, broad (some would say tasteless) comedy and satire, the intention of the series is absolutely serious: to show to Muslims and to all people of good will that the canonical texts of Islam contain a great deal of material that is absurd and inhumane. Since some Muslims are harming people on a daily basis because of those inhumane teachings, this is an effort that is charitable at its core — not all Christian charity can be equated with niceness, although many people today assume they are identical. The series could result in some people not acting upon those Islamic teachings and thus not harming others, and that is a good thing, and something that Christians should want.
And as for the second, in view of the fact that some Muslims do indeed harm other people every day on the basis of Islamic teachings, for anyone to decide to live in a manner other than by those teachings is a result that is for the greater benefit of all human beings.
In a video, White adds a third complaint:
The prophets used mockery, but they were speaking from God, and when you become a prophet, let me know….But the other thing is, and this is a real problem in my perspective, and that is, this could be used in reverse. One of the things that keeps me from addressing, at least, certainly in that type of fashion, so much of what’s found in the Hadith is the fact that I know that we have to be able to consistently provide an answer for materials, for example, that are found in the Old Testament that many people find to be extremely troubling….
The idea that one should not imitate the prophets unless one is himself a prophet is novel, but the prophets weren’t perfect or infallible, so very well. His other argument is that if Christians use mockery, mockery will be used against them, although in a later video he vehemently denies this in a rambling, circular, logorrheic outpouring:
The way it ended up getting twisted, and for twenty minutes, this straw man…Here is what it was twisted into: “James White says that we shouldn’t mock Muhammad because the Muslims might mock the Bible. Or the Old Testament.” Of course, I never said anything even remotely similar to that. Now what he was talking about, because he brought it up later on and gave a lot of examples, is something that both David and Vocab should know really, really well. At least Vocab should….What it was, of course, is consistency. Equal scales. Unlike any of those gentlemen, I have stood in mosques around the world and exhorted the Muslims in those audiences to use equal scales. Use the same standard of argumentation. Use the same standard. Or we can’t get anywhere. We can’t discuss truth, if you will use one standard to attack the New Testament and another standard to defend the Qur’an. As long as you’re willing to use double standards, there can be no meaningful discussion of truth, because you can’t discuss truth without discussing consistency. They are intimately related concepts. And so what I had said, and what Jon didn’t understand, but Vocab had to have understood and David didn’t listen to, was if we support utilization of a contextual mockery, a mockumentary as David describes it, then we have no basis for complaint when a mockumentary, and the Muslims do present something similar to that, is utilized against us, because we’ve ceded the moral ground. We’ve said, “We’ll go ahead,” and we will not, for example, I’ve yet to see in the series a recognition of the answers and contextualizations that have been offered by Muslim scholars regarding the particular issues that are brought up, some stronger than others. But you’re not doing that. You’re not representing those things. You’re going for the extreme immediately, and ignoring any of the things you’d find at Islamic Awareness or other places like that where these topics are addressed. Addressed consistently? I don’t think so. But if you don’t even acknowledge those things, then we’re putting ourselves in the position, they can do the same thing to us. And we’ve ceded the ground. There has to be consistency. I have to, in looking at the Qur’an, seek to allow it to speak for itself. I have to allow it to, I can’t just assume the worst possible understanding and then read it in. And so, unfortunately, that’s what’s going on here. And so what I was talking about was, even scales. Even scales. We have to have even scales in this conversation. There has to be consistency. There’s no other way to talk about truth. It had nothing to do with, Well, if we mock Muhammad, they might mock the Bible. It had everything to do with the standards of truth, with meaningful interaction.
That is a roundabout way of saying “if Christians mock the Qur’an, Muslims will mock the Bible,” but he denies that he means that, so we’ll give him his due. His complaint against “Islamicize Me” here is that it takes the worst possible interpretations of Islamic texts without examining the explanations Muslims have made for them — explanations that White himself grants are weak — and that this supposedly opens the door to Muslims putting the worst possible spin on Bible passages without acknowledging the explanations that are made for them.
White misses the mark here for several reasons: the first and most obvious is that numerous Muslim preachers and Islamic apologists already take Bible passages and put the worst possible spin on them. They have been doing this for years. It isn’t as if they’ve been holding off on doing so up to now, and are going to start because of “Islamicize Me.” In fact, it’s a staple of Islamic apologetics to dredge up long-forgotten passages of the Old Testament that neither Jews nor Christians apply literally and play tu-quoque games with them. But that is no excuse for Christians or anyone else to stoop to the same tactics, and what White misses about “Islamicize Me” is that it isn’t dealing in abstractions and hypotheticals, as a Muslim series would be if it criticized Christianity for Bible passages condoning slavery and saying things such as “Blessed is he who takes your babies and smashes them against a rock.” No Jews or Christians are pointing to those and other problematic Bible passages to justify bad behavior today; by contrast, what “Islamicize Me” depicts, albeit in a broadly satirical fashion, is all too real. There are Muslims today who are doing and teaching all the things that are depicted in the series. Absurd? Yes. Inconceivable? No. White is very unhappy about the breastfeeding episode, but there was an imam at Cairo’s venerable al-Azhar who was recommending this practice just a few years ago.
Finally, White is extremely annoyed because David Wood apparently didn’t watch his entire video criticizing the series, or read his book about the Qur’an. What is amusing about that complaint is that White said this:
But what I was absolutely stunned about was that David Wood, who, in this very video, said that I can run circles around him in New Testament, in textual criticism, this type of stuff, went into this video and admitted twice that he had never listened to what I’d said about Islamicize Me. He didn’t either listen to Dividing Line, watch Dividing Line, he just didn’t do it, and yet thinks that he is going to be able to provide a meaningful, exegetically-based refutation of the exegesis I offered of these texts, and do so accurately? How does that work? He shows more respect for Shabir Ally than me.
Yet in this video (starting at 7:27), White sits next to his friend Yasir Qadhi and shakes his head sympathetically as Qadhi says that “the far right targeted” him, “you know, Spencer and Pamela Geller.” Qadhi falsely claims that Pamela Geller and I produced a “fabricated audio clip,” referring to this one; he claims that we selectively edited his remarks to take him “out of context” and make it appear as if he was endorsing jihad against non-Muslims. Qadhi then adds yet another lie, falsely claiming that Pamela Geller and I sicced lawyers on him when he tried to get the clip taken down. In reality, neither Pamela Geller nor I had anything to do with the production of that audio clip, and never had any litigious interaction with Qadhi, but when I told White this in several private emails as well as in a public postings at Jihad Watch, he responded with arrogant contempt and refused to correct the record.
White clearly has far more respect for Yasir Qadhi, a Muslim Brotherhood, pro-jihad, pro-Sharia imam, than he does for me. But now he is enraged because David Wood supposedly showed more respect for the Islamic apologist Shabir Ally than for him. Well, wouldn’t you?
Glorious says
This man does not deserve your time. Thank you for all you to to make the truth known.
Ps. He totally misuses Scripture. I do not take him seriously as a Christian. He is certainly welcome to his opinions, but they are not worthy of sharing.
Elisha says
“Ps. He totally misuses Scripture.”
Well, he’s a Calvinist. What else would you expect?
dhans says
He selectively quotes scripture to voice his argument, thus is in violation of the commandment against using the Lord’s name in vane (do not use God’s name to teach false things). What he says is true, you cannot convert people by mocking them, but at the same time, Christianity has a need for exclusivity in it’s own community. This is stated in both the new and old Testament. There is only one God and we do not worship false prophets, or false idols. The political left never brings up the need for Christian exclusivity in society, only a selected understanding of “Love your neighbor”, and “turn the other cheek”. This is a disastrous course of our society. There is only one truth. A belief in everything is exactly the same as a belief in nothing.
J D S says
Muhammad stole most of his sayings, writings attributed to him etc from the Old Testament and there was some bad doings there…..Especially during the Jews trip to the promised land….God did not want his people to intermix with idolatrous peoples, marrying into, idol worship etc. So He directed them yo do many things that seem harsh to us today…things that, in some ways, the Muslims are doing to force their so called religion upon those of other faiths and no faiths and those who “march to a different drummer”. But muhammad fails to delve into the NEW COVENANT….JESUS….to see the peacefulness that is portrayed there..For instance I find no place in the New Testament where Jesus tells me to kill anyone FOR ANY REASON, especially to force one to accept Christianity…Jesus simply puts out the FACTS….If one does not want to end up in that awful Lake of Fire then follow Him…..No Force there just a warning.
Ray Jarman says
J.D.S., Thank you and there is another major difference between the Jews of the Old Testament, especially from Exodus to Ruth where most of the liberals find their false narratives, was that the Jews may have been harsh to others at times, most of the time God was harsh towards His chosen people. Also, unlike the cult, the Jews never have nor do they today proselyte. The Jews have always given much more than they have taken.
joy says
Very well put
gordon miller says
America is a wonderful country.
mortimer says
How many Muslims are dropping out of Islam due to James White’s soft, conciliatory language? Is White actually implying that many Islamic doctrines are NOT ABSURD?
-is licking one’s fingers after eating NOT absurd?
-is wiping the bottom with an UNEVEN NUMBER of stones NOT absurd?
-is drinking camel urine NOT absurd?
-is the gross misogyny of the hadiths NOT absurd?
Of course, those things are VERY absurd. White cannot deny their absurdity, so why will he not mock them too?
It is not CHARITABLE to let a person continue in a DEADLY and ABSURD error.
gravenimage says
Good points–and David Wood has actually reached quite a few Muslims himself, who have now left Islam.
joy says
Thank you for pointing these things out.
Carol the 1st says
Tomorrow it looks like JW will have a Glazov video with ex-muslim (now atheist) Armin Navabi. This fellow tried to kill himself at the age of twelve by jumping from a high spot in an effort to ensure he would get into the Islamic heaven and escape the tortures of hell. The fall crippled him.
What’s relates to the present topic is Armin’s description of how ill-informed many muslims are as to their own ‘religion’. We read this pretty often, but it always imprints deeper into our brains when we actually hear it from a born and raised muslim. It would be excellent if these MINO’S could find time in their busy days for David’s light-hearted exposition. I’m sure his Islamize Me series can make a big ‘impression’ – especially on rather virgin minds.
Watch for it tomorrow: Glazov Gang: Mohammed’s Teachings on Camel Urine.
Ren says
It is not enough to mock islam. Must ban islam.
mortimer says
Ren, Muslims are daily seeing and admitting the absurdities in Islam and it is the BEST way to help this abandon these IRRATIONAL BELIEFS.
mortimer says
correction: mockery of Islam’s many absurdities is the BEST way to help Muslims abandon these IRRATIONAL BELIEFS.
gravenimage says
It is also a great way to educate Infidels about Islam.
Ren says
Agreed with both mortimer and gravenimage.
Carol the 1st says
Let’s hope they don’t cling to the packaging. No reminders please.
Wyldeirishman says
When Elijah rightly mocks the false prophets of Baal, is he wrong to do so, Dr. White?
gravenimage says
+1
Gray says
Good point, I love that account, it’s not wrong to laugh at folly.
Kaye says
Nope
Terry Gain says
Islam claims that Christ faked his own death with the help of Allah – which ironically created the world’s largest religion. Despite His alleged fakery, Islam claims that Christ is a prophet. Of Islam.
Islam thus mocks Christ and Allah and Islam
No other ideology is as mock-worthy as Islam. Please mock away.
I didn’t even need to mention that Islam claims to be peaceful while creating rivers of blood from its inception and continuing today.
kuriakose says
Well said, JB..
Colonel Canuck says
Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter – they all spoke bluntly, critically, some might say, mockingly to their opponents:
Matthew 3: 9 (John the Baptist talking) “And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire”.
Matthew 7: 4 (Jesus talking) “How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while there is still a beam in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. 6 Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces”…
Matthew 12: 34 (Jesus talking) “You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks”.
Matthew 16: 5 When they crossed to the other side, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Watch out! Jesus told them. “- Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
Matthew 21: 12 Then Jesus went into the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those selling doves. 13 And He declared to them, “It is written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer.’ But you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”
Matthew 26 “Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, so that the outside may become clean as well. 27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every impurity. 28In the same way, you appear to be righteous on the outside, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness”.…
1 John 3: 9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil can be distinguished: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
1 Corinthians 6: 9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.…
Acts 5 New International Version (NIV)
Ananias and Sapphira
5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.
7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”
“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”
9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”
10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.
Colonel Canuck says
Dr. White quotes 1 Peter 3 15:16, in which the Apostle Peter says we Christians must always be ready to defend the Faith, but with gentleness and humility. So, Dr. White opines that we Christians ought not make fun of Islam. Yet, this same Peter (didn’t actively cause but) oversaw the death of 2 Christians (who were greedy with their money). That, to me, is not being gentle nor humble. Couldn’t Peter just have meekly and politely asked them to give up the money? I guess Almighty God’s ways are above our ways. So, could we not say that mockery of Islam might get many Muslims to question their false religion and turn to their One True Redeemer Jesus Christ? Jesus was quite mean, and probably hurt the precious feelings of the Pharisees, when he called them hypocrites, thieves, white-washed tombs, bad yeast, and snakes. But His ways are above our ways.
Joe says
Jesus was trying to help them. He wanted them to see their error. These videos are in the same vein.
Carol the 1st says
Colonel Canuck, your reasoning seems blurry but mainly this:
…”oversaw the death” does not translate to “oversaw the killing” so where does your “not gentle or kind” fit in?
Maybe a big source of present day *snowflake* problems comes from too much Dr. Spock theory? I’ve seen kids raised with the inhibited reactions of their parents. They sense something unnatural and actually seem to test for “boundaries” and seek out physical confrontations when those parents aren’t watching. Just a thought.
JawsV says
There was no Islam until the 7th century. Islam says to kill Jews and Christians, the “infidels.” So yes we can mock and disparage rotten anti-Jew/Christian 7th century Islam all we want. Islam sucks!
Arasu says
Good examples Colonel. I would like to add my favorite:
Joh 8:41-44 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. (42) Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. (43) Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. (44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
gravenimage says
The “Islamicize Me” controversy: Is it wrong to mock Islam?
………………..
Even here, there have been a handful of posters who don’t believe that we should be allowed to mock Islam.
That is, incidentally, exactly what Shari’ah law says.
I think we should mock the evil of Islam at every turn.
What Islamicize me is doing is *exposing evil*. The idea that Christianity demands that we not do so could not be more mistaken.
We mocked the Fascists during WWII–we did not laud the Nazis out of “respect”. Doing the same with Islam is a *good thing*.
Rob Crawford says
Popular culture routinely mocks Christianity. South Park explained Mormon theology over a chorus of “dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb”.
Why shouldn’t Islam also be mocked? Is it too weak to withstand mockery? To ridiculous? If so, shouldn’t it be mocked, so as to remove such a weak and false pack of lies from humanity?
Carol the 1st says
I think James White is worried you might follow up on his case next. He wishes to continue pontificating from the mountaintop with a few select buddies.
AleX says
Mocking Islam starts by mocking its ‘prophet’ moe-hoe-MAD the Troglodyte.
This abominable cross-dressing paedophile surely perform some finger licking of gorgons’ claws in his Inferno just before being forced to perform a Bacha-Bazi dancing number on the lap of a Hydra.
Question is: how many heads has moe -hoe got to give Hydra to appease Her lust?
boakai ngombu says
” …There are Muslims today who are doing and teaching all the things that are depicted in the series….”
the slaves (muslims) are convinced that these teachings are to be followed. with mockery, some may be caused to ask why are these teachings to be followed? and, hopefully they would take a further step and ask: what good are they; is there another way?
the hope there is: that DOUBT is experienced and even recognized and, as well, that the inadequacy of the islamic sources are NOT SUFFICIENT is realized … then GOSPEL makes sense
just as 10 Commandments condemn and produce knowledge of the existence of sin with death as the proof. convinced of sinfulness, sometimes individuals will recognize the need for a savior, and then; Jesus makes sense.
Susan J Matthiesen says
Does James White (never heard of him before) not know that Christ went into the Temple with a WHIP and drove out the money changers while CALLING THEM NAMES?
I think he’s jealous that he doesn’t have a magic backpack with all the answers.
Carol the 1st says
Susan…you must be forgetting that he has a fellow backpacker: Muslim Brotherhood imam Yasir Qadhi, whom he calls a “kindred spirit.”
gravenimage says
Grimly true.
Elizabeth in Delaware says
Why give any credence to a vain poseur like James White? Don’t call him “Dr.” if you value the import that designation gives to a person’s viewpoint. After his two legitimate degrees, all other academic letters following his name White purchased from a second-rate degree mill. As a Christian White utterly impugns his own commitment to the truth, that is, the Lord Jesus Christ, and his message. White knows the Quran, and has said that “clearly, the author of the Quran does not know the Gospel.” THAT is the plain truth, which means that the one, eternal God, Yahweh, has nothing to do with the Quran, Muhammad, Islam, nor Yasir Qadhi and his murderous brethren. White evaporates what remains of his credibility by his inexplicable, show-off friendship with a man I myself have seen deny and denigrate all of the central teachings of Christianity. What does White think he is doing by lending this precursor of the true Antichrist his Christian imprimatur? I have watched these two buddies together, and it is mind-boggling that White sells himself like a whore. For what? I am left unable to believe anything that comes out of James White’s mouth anymore. He defends and befriends a son of Satan.
Peter WF says
No, it is not wrong to mock islam.
Comedians have a great time at the expense of the Christians etc. and particularly the Catholics. All Christians turn the other cheek.
Those same comedians are too scared to do the same with Islam. Wonder why????
Carol the 1st says
…they’ve become more sensitively attuned and it hurts too much?
gravenimage says
James White has said that Yasir Qadhi is a “kindred spirit” and calls him his “mentor”–even though Qadhi has worked with thr Muslim Brotherhood and has defended Jihadists like Sami al Arian and “American Taliban” John Walker Lindh. In addition to the usual–denigrating Christianity–he has also preached that Christians are filthy and that their property and lives can rightly be taken in Jiha .
White has never disagreed with anything that Qadhi has said. No wonder he is incensed over Christians mocking the savagery of Islam.
Here’s more on James White,pretending that Islam is not violent:
“Audio: Robert Spencer debates James White on violence in Islam”
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/06/audio-robert-spencer-debates-james-white-on-violence-in-islam
LeftisruiningCanada says
I’m sure you have watched/listened to the place where J White says that Y Qadhi is a “kindred spirit”, but it might be worth quoting a little more, just for those that may not have had chance to hear it before:
“But the reason i specifically sough him out, is because i sense in him such a kindred spirit, on the other side of the chasm that divides us with regards to our theology and our beliefs. He is a consistent muslim, he believes what he says, he wants to seek for consistency amongst his people…”
Having heard J White complain (rightly) many times about how muslim debaters almost universally use different standards for evidence and reason depending on whether they are talking about the koran or the Bible, i know that this is what he is referring to. He believes that Y Qadhi is willing to use more honest debating standards…though interestingly the imam himself refuses to actually engage in debate.
The imam being J White’s “mentor” is simply with regards to White’s study of islam for the purposes of being able to meet muslims more accurately in debate. Having myself spent more than a year meeting with members of the Watchtower for the purpose of learning their system from the source, i can well understand what he means. It doesn’t mean that White is honoring the imam as a convert or thanking him for teaching truth!
As for not having disagreed with the imam…..J White is a Christian. He disagrees with pretty much everything any imam would ever say.
I do hope this reply will not be taken in the wrong spirit or tone. I’m just trying to stick to the facts as i see them, while respecting a elder Christian teacher no matter his weakness in this area.
gravenimage says
Thanks for your reply, LeftisruiningCanada.
I’m afraid from everything I have seen of James White he is a pretty ugly apologist for Islam. I haven’t seen anything here so far to change that estimation.
Despite our disagreement here, I always respect your point of view and hope you are doing well.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, of course, and thank you for that.
If anything else comes to my attention that might be useful on this, i’ll post it up somewhere appropriate.
You can be sure that the day J White shows himself to be a defender of islam, i’ll be the first to shout it loudly.
Thanks GI, hope you and yours are well also.
CogitoErgoSum says
White is afraid Muslims will put the worst possible spin on the Bible? You mean they haven’t been doing that for the past 1,400 years or so? He’s afraid there might be some embarrassing things in the Old Testament? Does he mean the same Old Testament that Christ used as a reference point in His teachings? Why wasn’t Christ embarrassed by what was in the Old Testament and, if so, why didn’t He do something about it? Oh, wait. He did do something about it … through His death on the cross and His resurrection from the grave. Or is that what White finds embarrassing?
The scale to use is the Truth ….. and Christ said He is the Truth. David and his friends told the truth. I would be happy if Muslims would to do the same.
Westman says
Today’s infatuation with self importance is out of control. It was pure genius that Apple coined the term iMAC where the “i” initially meant Internet. The users morphed that into “I” as in me, me, and now there is no end to products beginning with “i”.
Is it a tragedy that David Wood ignored such an august intellectual-religionist as “iWhite” who doesn’t realize that Islam is like a trap-door spider, showing a false image, waiting for the victim who believes what is shown? Wood knows what lurks behind the door.
Westman says
iWhite ignores the incompatible premise of Islam – that Islam is the replacement for the “fraud” of Jesus As Divine.
Even an Agnostic can understand that ANY support of Islam by a Christian is a denial of Jesus which makes that Christain an Apostate. From apostates Pope Francis to James iWhite, they have denied Christ.
From the Bible: “if we deny him, he also will deny us” and, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
What has happened to Christians who adore Islam with their full bellies full from their air conditioned homes while their Brothers and Sisters are murdered by men with minds sickened by its violent teachings? Where are the Real Christians?
Perhaps when POTUS Obama declared the US was no longer a Christian nation, it was from a cynical observation of how weakly it resisted Islam.
Carol the 1st says
Didn’t Obama sprout from a notoriously Leftist island that got filled with Commie hippies (like his parents) fleeing the US mainland in the McCarthy era? I don’t think Obama ever really valued what’s positive about America. If he did he wouldn’t have been a rotten traitor. Case Closed.
Mark Swan says
Absolutely Westman.
Billy Chickens says
James White must not know the demonic origins of the Quran. Either the Quran is true or the Bible is, but both cannot be true. Hint: Jesus was not a Muslim nor will He return to earth at the end of time as a Muslim jihadist to kill all Jews and Christians.
Halal Bacon says
If you can Mock Chicken and you can Choke your Chicken, you can Mock Islam
Carol the 1st says
But stay faithful to Miss Piggy!
Carol the 1st says
Jay Boo…your choice of this old video is synchronistic Divine Sanction for David’s series. It illustrates another probable reason why Mohammed hated dogs – their howling at the adhan could be seen as MOCKERY – and thus this video unmistakably signals to us that MOCKERY WORKS!!
It would be delightful if other dogs followed suit (maybe not for early birds). Certain chords and timbres (like the dog whistle) have an effect, as we know. Try blowing a harmonica around cats and it’s hilarious – they’re amazingly intrigued!
Emilie Green says
“Is it wrong to mock Islam?”
Au contraire. Mockery is an excellent means of both educating the public about Islam and de-fanging it.
Linda says
When you can laugh at something frightful, it doesn’t hold the power over you that it may once have had.
gravenimage says
+1
Linda says
Muslims have blasphemy laws for people who say anything bad about Islam. I have thought for a long time that no one really needs to say anything bad about Islam. All one needs to do, is to tell the truth about Islam and people will get the idea of what Islam is all about.
This series doesn’t mock Islam so much as it exposes Islam. The actors are put into various situations and always go to Islamic written sources for reference on how to deal with the situation the Islamic way.
Is it really so terrible that we can have a little reprieve from the daily blood bath that is Islam? Is James White making a mountain out of a mole hill? Lighten up Dr. White!
Keys says
Good post, Linda. White is a virtue signaler.
Perhaps the exact script of Islamicize Me could be given to professional actors with the direction to put a serious and dramatic affect to the lines instead of the light heartedness portrayed by these actors.
Then turn the zany costuming, props, and scenery into the level seen in epic Hollywood productions — i.e. the same show with all sincerity and seriousness would be even more absurd and make a mockery of Islam.
Linda says
You’re right. White should get the virtue signalling award of the year. Nobody has to mock Islam. All they have to do is present it, as is, and people will see it for what it is.
Terry Gain says
Justin Trudeau has that award under lock and key.
Linda says
Yes. I guess he does have that one all wrapped up.
Fred Dawes says
I Mock Islam I call it what it is total evil with people who work for Satan rule AND ALL Muslim Mock God. All evil comes from that so called Religion of Peace That so called system is all about Killing rape and total Corruption of human being.
elee says
I mock whoever earns my contempt. My forbears died for this among other rights. Muzzies wanna muzzle me? Bring’em on.
mgoldberg says
I wonder if it would be indiscrete in the mind of Dr White if they did a parody of Mohammed putting hot burning coals ont he chest of the elder of Kaybar, forcing him to reveal where the ‘loot’ was.
You know, before he raped and took the wife he desired and the other women for his band of religious men.
Would that be indiscrete? I mean heavens to betsy, I wouldn’t want to be unkind to a man who’s every act is considered… no demanded to be the perfect example for all humanity to follow.
I mean, would it be indiscrete to maybe show what this actually indicates about the values of such a man, such a religion, and so on and so forth. Or should be polite and say, ‘oh, we ignorant infidels just don’t read the right tafsirs to get the flavor, the deeply spiritual value of putting hot coals on a vicitims chest and raping the village women. Dr White we are so corrected.
Susan B. says
Forget parody, I think that a movie should be made about the life of mohammad. It could be “The most “horrific” story every told”. Making a movie of mohammad directly out of the islamic books would be an eye opener for many, including muslims. Of course the making of this movie would not be allowed, which tells me who currently rules the world.
mortimer says
Goldberg, the story of the torture and murder of synagogue president Kinnana (his name is recorded) is one of the evilest in Islam and one that most Muslims would barely know or care to think about. Whatever Mohammed did, they strain to justify. This story of torture for money cannot be justified by any version of morality.
Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
Mak says
I’m not a Christian but is poking fun at something not good since it spreads levity and happiness? Making people laugh is a good thing. Learning to poke fun at ones’ self is also humbling and probably in line with Christian teachings.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Dr White is a great source on many Christian issues, especially when it comes to Trinitarianism, Reformed soteriology, various other cults, and in many ways on islam also.
I do struggle however to take seriously some of his statements regarding islam’s violent nature.
Make no mistake though; even with this slight weakness, J White is a strong, reliable, source in general and a committed fisher of men.
gravenimage says
LeftisruiningCanada–with the greatest respect–whatever his other strengths, a steady whitewash of the horrors of Islam is *not* a good thing.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Certainly not, though i would not be able to go so far as saying that he does this.
Indeed, J White has spoken harshly against islam and the many attacks against the West, upbraiding the muslims community for not themselves condemning those attacks as they should.
But that was a few years ago. Since then he does seem to have softened his approach, though i’ve no reason to believe that this is because of any change in his view of islam.
He may simply want to gain the most access to muslims and their places of worship.
Being wise as serpents and harmless as doves has precedent.
https://www.gotquestions.org/wise-serpents-harmless-doves.html
gravenimage says
Thanks, LeftisruiningCanada. I’ll keep an eye on him. We may have to agree to disagree on this matter, though.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Which is perfectly alright!
I too will be watching how things go with him and the ministry. Islam is a deadly deceptive force, and no one is immune to being taken in by it.
Carol the 1st says
Trinitarianism?…does he also know about Mithraism? If so, we have a new buddy for him.
LeftisruiningCanada says
im sure they would be very happy together.
Edward Vaughn says
The only way to rid the world of this disease, and it is a disease, is to mock it out of existence. Expose it to the light of day (reason and logic). A.) Islam is a CULT not a religion. To be a perfect Mohammedan you must do as Mohammad did, to the letter. B.) It is a disease: It begins by infecting the body it invades (demanding changes to the laws and behaviors of the established nation—these are the initial viruses); it then begins breeding wildly, infecting the entire host body. In the end it replaces the host and creates a diseased simulacrum of the original—as is happening in Indonesia today. Laugh it to death. Expose its risible ideas. Mock its claims to scientific validity. But most of all, have fun doing it.
Cathryn Paradise says
James White is a false teacher and rejects the authority of the Scriptures. I first became aware of his anti-biblical stance in his 1995 book The King James Only Controversy in which he lies over 70 times. He is a Hyper Calvinist who does not believe in free will salvation. By using the NIV he can justify his friendship with Moslems but one of the verses he uses to condemn David Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Condemns White himself for having Moslem friends. I have listened to his stuff over the years until I got tired of his “yea hath God said” attitude.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Do you yourself believe that the KJV is the only word of God for today?
I would be interested to see a few of those lies you mention.
And, though i’m hardly looking for the position of James White Defender, i can assure you that he is in no way a hyper calvinist.
The fact that he goes about preaching the Gospel to everybody, including muslims, without first checking for signs of election or regeneration is enough to dispel that rumor.
mike ryan says
I read the Word of God in its original language, Hebrew, and have no use for a faulty translation authorized by a corrupt English king of the early 17th century. Besides, the Creator speaks to us in everything He has placed on this Earth, down to the seemingly most insignificant grain of sand on the remotest beach, and up to the most distant star we can see revealed to us by the most recent scientific advancement.
Ecosse1314 says
King James was in fact Scottish and was King of Scots for over 30 years before becoming King of England on the death of Elizabeth.
LeftisruiningCanada says
So would it be correct to say that you either reject the NT, or believe it was originally composed entirely in Hebrew?
Either way, i feel safe in assuming that you are not a KJV only advocate 😉
Carol the 1st says
mike ryan…James I of England was the son of Mary, Queen of Scots and Lord Darnley. You might be interested to know it was said of him:
James I was one of the most highly-educated monarchs ever to have ruled England. He wrote elegant Latin poetry and had an extensive knowledge of theology.
Mo says
As I’ve said on YouTube and Twitter, I am a fan of White’s videos, the I.E. series, and of course, all of Robert’s work.
I was not aware of this incident with JW and Yasir Qadhi. That’s disappointing and troubling.
But now that it seems everyone’s said their piece and hopefully cleared the record (if not come to full agreement on everything), I do hope this infighting dies down. It just gives our detractors more ammo to distract from the actual issues.
suburbanbanshee says
James White is notoriously anti-Catholic, so it is hilarious that he speaks so kindly of Muslims. He is also notorious for illogical arguments and as hominem mockery, so I am truly startled to see him condemn mockery.
Sigh. To quote a non-sacred author, “Lord, what fools these mortals be.”
Lydia Church says
Well, I sense a hornet’s nest has been opened…. O :
This is a very controversial matter and by no means satisfied by a simple answer.
I don’t know what everyone is saying about this item as I can’t keep up with all the comments, and honestly don’t have time to watch all the videos so I cannot comment on that.
But somehow the issue of mockery came up earlier and I don’t even recall the details.
All I will say is this:
“Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” Colossians 4; 6
This is the wise approach for the Christian as our main goal is to extricate their souls from the evil entanglement of islam and thus impending hell. It can be like delicate surgery.
Humor is fun, and there is a place for it, as well as for mockery and sarcasm at times.
But we must be wise and noble and above reproach.
If something goes wrong, we don’t want the enemy to have a shred of evidence to point to in order to blame us.
What is most efficacious in the salvation of souls?
I’m just thinking of the best strategies for the end results of all of this.
Of course without the Gospel, how can anyone get saved?
It is impossible. It is good to at least have a basic pointing to Jesus and His sacrifice for our sins for our salvation and such.
I do have issues with James White for other reasons as he is a Calvinist.
Anyway, on with the battle!
( :
Love and blessings as always.
David Anderson says
I’m not loving David Wood’s Islamicize Me videos mainly because it’s not my style of humour. Truth be told, I find them kind of gross and silly. However there are indeed people in the world that do appreciate that kind of broad, somewhat tasteless satire, and people who might be reached by it better than more sober analysis. Therefore I support his effort, even though I don’t like it much.
LeftisruiningCanada says
That is about what i think too.
There is room for both approaches, and others besides, as Christ will be preached and made known to all kinds who may not listen to one or another of them.
gravenimage says
That’s fine. To be honest, I have found these to be a bit hit or miss. But I *absolutely* defend David Wood’s right to mock Islam.
LeftisruiningCanada says
From a legal perspective of course, Mr Wood et al must be defended in their right to free speech. We all know how much that is being eroded.
From the perspective of his being a servant of Christ it may be a little more complicated. If 1 Peter 3:15-16* is taken as a guiding statement on apologetic character and methodology, it is possible to argue that one who seeks to preach the Gospel might be better served by refraining from every kind of mockery.
Making videos like some of the “islamicize me” examples, which reach down to frat-boy party levels of grossness, can only do harm to the standing of those who, at others times, would have the targets of their mockery listen with all seriousness to their message regarding Christ and His sacrifice.
Cult members already believe themselves to be morally superior to everyone outside the cult. We don’t make it any easier for them to listen to us if we act according to their prejudice,
*
“in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.”
Susan B is getting really mad@# says
Muslims want to rape and murder us because they are commanded to do so. They will never have my respect, thank you very much, anymore than Charles Manson does. Who knows maybe CM was a muslim, he sure behaved like one.
I do not believe that Jesus expects Christians to lie down while we are murdered and islam tries to destroy Christianity. Exposing the evil of islam is the only weapon we seem to have against this satanic cult and you think that we should not call out islam??? Islam deserves to ridiculed and exposed to not only educate us kafirs, but also muslims that have not yet sold their soul to the devil allah. Actually, especially muslims.
Carol the 1st says
Leftis…Islam passionately *adores* making itself appear sooo wonderful and complex!! Then Dennis, Giovanni, and Jamal stumble onto the scene with unwitting hatpins that will serve to puncture this fat, self-inflated balloon – why it couldn’t be MORE fitting!
Humor is likely the kindest way to help the balloon remnants drift back down to earth where the rest of mankind is fit to reside.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Susan B,
“I do not believe that Jesus expects Christians to lie down while we are murdered and islam tries to destroy Christianity.”
Nor do i, not being a pacifist, but a committed believer in self defense and the second amendment.
I’ve had this discussion about Christian self defense several times on here, but I’m not sure that this is exactly what we talking about right now..
“Exposing the evil of islam is the only weapon we seem to have against this satanic cult and you think that we should not call out islam???”
Exposing the evil of islam is certainly a good thing to do, and i assuredly do not think we shouldn’t be calling it out for what it is.
Exposure is not the only weapon though, nor even the Christian’s strongest. The Gospel is our best and most powerful weapon, as this is the only thing which God has given us which can convert the soul of any sinner, muslim or otherwise.
The Gospel can be proclaimed boldly or spoken softly, and it will, by God’s grace, do it’s work. But why give those whose hearts are opposed to it an excuse to condemn us for behaving badly, when, as Peter says, they will be looking for any chance to discredit us?
“Islam deserves to ridiculed and exposed to not only educate us kafirs, but also muslims that have not yet sold their soul to the devil allah. Actually, especially muslims.”
Couldn’t agree more. Bringing to light the truth about islam is a GREAT thing to do, and i support everyone who does this. David Wood has done fantastic work on this, as has James White and many others.
The point here is in relation to the tone of some of the ‘mockumentary’ videos recently published, and if they are in a proper Christian tone or doing damage to the reputation of the Gospel.
Some of the videos, i feel, are in that category.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Carol,
Yes, pointing out the absurdities of islam is a good thing. I’ve no disagreements with that whatsoever.
This whole dispute is because of the somewhat puerile and immature tone that some of the videos have taken (the vomiting, nudity etc).
For my part, i think that their zeal in opposing islam, and their sincere desire to expose its evil has led them into acting in ways that are perhaps not consistent with Christians seeking to set forth the love and truth that is found in the face of Jesus Christ.
Japetto Danatelli says
“Is it wrong to mock islam?”
Islam mocks itself with its foul logic and moral ineptitude.
All those leaders–muslim and non muslim–who praise islam as some kind of virtuous religion are paramount fools in need of a good slap. If islam really were divinely inspired then it’s a god that should be shunned by all decent people. Such a god does not deserve reverence, only condemnation. But I’m not worried, the moral and spiritual basis for islam is bereft of the intelligence that a true creator would most certainly have. It’s just commonsense, we wouldn’t expect a bona fide idiot to do the work of an Einstein, and we shouldn’t expect god to have less intelligence and moral sense than your average child. Allah is such a god. The sane world should ridicule such ideas as contemptible and virtually no benefit to humanity, unless I suppose if one used it as an example to be avoided. If you want to grow intellectually and spiritually then it makes no sense to follow the dictates of an immoral, illogical fool. That kind of superstitious idiocy has never been good for humanity and islam will surely do no better.
Every leader who speaks highly of islam is like someone praising the kindness of a serial killer. Fine, accentuate the positive if it’s the right time for it. But we don’t let the killer run free because of it, there’s a greater obligation that must be satisfied here. Islam is no different. We shouldn’t over look any good it might contain, but it’s a crime and a sin to ignore the evils it teaches and causes the world.
All muslims should reject islam’s regressive totems and instead love truth as it best serves humanity. A good place to start might be to laugh at your own stupidity, muslims, for having ever thought it was true. I assure you, once you do that the mockery will stop, and you’ll gain the respect as someone with enough guts to admit when they’ve been wrong.
Carol the 1st says
+1
LeftisruiningCanada says
+1
Flavius Claudius Iulianus says
Ignore this priggish collaborator and enabler of Mohammadism and carry on with your first class comedy.
Linda says
I agree. Who is Dr. James White anyway? This whole thing reminds me of the joke about a guy who walked into a feminist bookstore, went up to the counter and asked the clerk, “Where is the humour section?” With her best poker face, she replied, “This is a feminist bookstore. There IS NO humour section.”
If Dr. James White doesn’t like the series, he doesn’t have to watch the videos. As for me, I’m waiting for “Islamicize Me Day 26”.
gravenimage says
Hear, hear!
LeftisruiningCanada says
It is true that no one is forced to watch the videos, and that if a person doesn’t like them he is free to ignore them.
However, the Church, that is, the worldwide community of those who confess Christ, is not called the ‘Body of Christ’ for no reason. The analogy is fitting, since, as per the NT model, the various individuals that make up the body are not all supposed to do the same job. It needs eyes, ears, hands, feet and so on.
As part of this model, it is perfectly reasonable for one part of the body to keep an eye on another part, just to keep everything in balance. The Church is also likened to a family, and families should look out for one another.
This self checking is not always done in the most polite or loving manner of course, but that is because we are all, of course, mostly a mess, which causes things to sometimes become a little heated.
That’s ok. We’re family 🙂
Linda says
I don’t think family should treat each other more harshly than it does outsiders. it is very uncharitable to criticize David Wood’s skits while ignoring the atrocities of Islam.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Family is family is family. Harsh words then carry on as usual. What can you say?
I’ve not found anyone involved in the ministry to muslims to be ignorant of the evil that is islam. As i’ve said elsewhere on this page, it may not be to everyone’s advantage to pursue the same tactics in seeking to undermine the cult.
LeftisruiningCanada says
It really would be necessary to show some solid evidence that a Christian who i know for a fact preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and constantly brings out the falsity of islam, is a collaborator and enabler of mohammadanism.
i don’t care about personalities at all, but it is simply is not true to bring that charge.
Granddaddy says
I don’t know if mockery is quite the right word. It’s the idea that, for instance, a Muslim could invite you over to his house for a glass of camel pee. For real. What would you say?
Granddaddy says
Or your buddy at work tells you, “I just converted to Islam, and I have this child bride. She’s only six, so she’s kind of slow, but let me tell you, she sure is great in the sack.” What would you say?
Or your Muslim neighbor says, “Did you see the Christian beheadings last night on Al- Jazeera? Were they great or what?”
Or your Muslim councilman, whom everybody voted into office except you because they didn’t want to offend people who want to kill us, says, “I need you to sign my petition to the governor to start a new jew-hatred club here.”
Or dog hatred. What’s the point of that? Are dogs standing in the way of Islam taking over the world?
How is a civilized person supposed to relate to this stuff?
Salome says
A Muslim doesn’t know he shouldn’t kill, now, does he?
Salome says
Every time the Quran tells a story purportedly involving biblical personages (Jesus, Moses, Abraham, for example), it mocks the Bible.
Granddaddy says
Yes. Islam claims that all the patriarchs in the Bible were Muslims, not Jews. And none of the stories match. The only thing the Quran seems to have in common with the Bible is the names of the people, and even that is questionable. Ninety percent of the Quran is about refuting Judaeo-Christianity and slandering non-Muslims. This is a religion?
mike ryan says
Mock, and then mock some more. Keep mocking Islam. We have a moral obligation to mock any belief that is dangerous to the rest of humanity, just as we have a moral obligation to protect out bodies from disease and dangerous mishaps.
gravenimage says
Hear, hear, Mike!
Benedict says
Islam is one extended mockery from beginning to end. Persuading people to put their foreheads to the ground while elevating their lower body parts encapsulates the mockery in a symbolic way.
Having reduced the mockery from fifty times a day to five, Muhammad only adds to the mockery and perfects it. Adding a red clown nose on the faces of the victims would have been too much.
Can mockery potentially open the eyes of Muslims for their ridiculous prophet pulling their legs? I suppose so: if it’s the right person who does the mockery in the right place and at the right time – and that’s difficult to decide.
St. Manuel II Palailogos says
He’s more anti-Catholic than anti-Muslim, that speaks to his heresy.
Matthew Whyte says
If ever there was an ideology that deserved, needed and begged to be mocked it is islam from dunking flies to gulping down camel piss,to raping your 2 year old baby sister then marrying her it islam folks mock it till it hurts then mock it again.
gravenimage says
+1
Johm says
Islam is in effect a geopolitical system and not a religion at all. It is a system of government and has no place in the west at all. It is a debotched religion and full of errors. The Quran in English reads like a 5th grader wrote it. The worst book I ever read ! Why would everything in the Quran be the opposite of that of the Bible ? It is because it’s not ! The framers of the Bible were Hebrew. Those who were part of the Quran are Arabic ! Like day and night . Why shouldn’t we be able to critize Islam ? It is totally wrong in its stances and considered a false book ! I lived in Iran for 7 years and Packistan for I Year . It does not matter how you spin this it is considered intellectually twisted scripture. Almost nothing in the Quran is true ! Why would the true Gaberal tell us one thing in the Bible and another thing in the Quran? He didn’t ! Gaberial is a gentlemen and introduces himself every time that he has a message from god. But this one in the Quran does not ! Mohammad’s wife had a friend who was a catholic nune and she said this must be Gaberal ! It was not and was mistaken ! Jesus is coming to Iran and healing the terminally ill ! These people are leaving Islam and starting a new life elswere . Come out of Islam while you still can like 2 million others in Iran . Islam is nothing but a false belief and nothing more. Islam has no power to heal . It is a flop . Plane and simple . Come out of her now !
Axolotl says
Satire – another great British tradition – has long been the only way to say the unsayable and question the unquestionable. In a society where, outrageously, simply criticising a religion can land you in jail, satire is an invaluable tool.
Carol the 1st says
The videos are almost slapstick. Neither Jamal, Giovanni nor Dennis can walk without tripping over one another – and yet that spinning-top Charlie Chaplin would surely be quite proud of them!
infidel says
David Wood is on the RIGHT TRAJECTORY… It is high time someone did what he is doing. Hope it is done in every country. And while I’m on this, there is a very interesting article that has appeared here in India and it is about Ramadan and how the Indian Lib media would have reacted it it was a Hindu festival instead of a Muslim one!!
http://www.opindia.com/2018/06/if-ramzan-was-hindu-holy-month-liberal-hypocrisy-pictures-satire/
gravenimage says
+1
Linda says
This is my criticism of Christianity. People are slaughtered every day by Muslims on account of Islam, but some Christians would rather take exception to other Christians doing a comedy skit about Islam, than they would to call Muslims out about their murderous rampages. I guess they fell safer that way. Ask Dr. James White, the dhimmi.
gravenimage says
Not all Christians are like this, Linda. Robert Spencer isn’t.
Linda says
That James White must be a real piece of work if he criticizes Islamicize Me and not Islam. I have no use for him.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Of course J White criticizes islam. It simply isn’t true to claim otherwise.
His focus and method is just a little different to mockumentary style videos, and is mainly about meeting muslims in formal debate to counter their claims while always making space to preach the Gospel to the audience.
Personally i wish he was a little more outspoken about islam and the obviously violent foundation it is based upon, but i understand why he isn’t: he cares more about gaining access to large muslim crowds to preach the Gospel to them.
Have you checked out any of the debates he’s done?
DragarOz says
Linda, the basis of Christianity is that the masses are sheep.
Linda says
They’re not James White’s sheep.
Linda Clark formerly Linnte says
What irritates me the most about Dr. Whites complaint? He is not trusting GOD to use what Vocab, David and Jon are doing to speak to Muslims! We are in SERIOUS bad times now, or the beginnings of bad times. This is a serious BATTLE for the lives of 1.6 BILLION Muslims!
It’s time we and others SLAM Muslims with the truth, and if being ASHAMED of their prophet causes them to THINK(I wish I could do italics) then so be it. So much more information is coming out regarding Islamic texts(see Dr. Jay Smiths “Pfander films” website), Mecca really being Petra(research by Dan Gibson who’s website is “Sacred City”), that Muslims have access to more info on the internet, it is surely within God’s plan to cause them some doubt.
I say Praise God for Acts 17 apologetics!
And P.S. Mr Spencer did a wonderful job of acting! He looked really scary! Hahahahah!
Baucent says
I would wonder what James White feels about the early Protestant activists like Martin Luther and others who certainly were uncharitable, critical and not scared of raising contentious issues with those of the Catholic faith. In fact study a little church history around the time of the Reformation and you find very little behaviour lining up with the scriptures he quotes.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Obviously can’t speak for the man, but i have heard him talk a little about Luther and the later Reformers. He is quite open about the fact that Luther was later in life the writer of some terribly antisemitic pieces, and that, at the least, Calvin would have had him (J White) banished from Geneva, if not worse. (White is a Calvinist remember).
These things he puts down to differing standards of the times, culturally inculcated prejudices and the seriousness with which religious ideas were taken.
He also comments on how death was a more common fact of life back then (shorter life spans, less medical technology, more corporal punishments, plagues etc).
He has a comprehensive set of lectures on Church History uploaded on the PRBC sermon audio page, which i’m sure would help address your questions far better than i can.
You could also call the show – it’s free phone within the US 😉
LeftisruiningCanada says
And of course, Luther and Calvin et al were all still sinners 😉
revereridesagain says
Every adult human being is responsible for what he or she believes. Any person who spouts nonsense accompanied by the demand that you accept and acknowledge it as fact deserves to be mocked. That is not the same as saying, “I like to believe this. It comforts me. I don’t ask you to do so, it is a personal choice of mine.” No one has the right to demand that another accept something as fact because to refuse to do so would “hurt my feelings”. Believe it or not, it is equally painful to a rational person to be required to give credence to nonsense. Reality is as dear to us as your fairy tales are to you.
If you believe something to be true, be prepared to defend it in the court of reason. Not the court of whining, foot-stamping, and “you’re being uncharitable!”
terry says
Mocking is better than threatening, subjugating, persecuting and slaughtering like muslims do to others.
Carol the 1st says
It might in fact throw them off their stride. But let’s hope they don’t pout and threaten to blow up classrooms filled with young girls in order to put a halt to ‘kuffar insubordination’ (the word ‘sacrilege’ doesn’t really fit, does it?).
JM says
Islam is ridiculous on its face, recalling the naked Emperor proudly parading naked through the town in his “Emperor’s New Clothes”. Conformism, self-interest, fear, and peer pressure transform the public’s initial shock to suspended disbelief. Crowd dynamics then take this illusion to the next level of mass delusion. Only a small child’s innocent and obvious question is able to jolt collective cognitive dissonance and insanity back to the world of reality. The ridicule that ensues is nothing short of a thought revolution in the public space.
Inverting truth and falsehood and convincing the public to accept it is the steppingstone to gulags and Reverend Jones cult-style Kool-Aid and cyanide mass murder/suicide. The free world is at the stage where innocent and obvious questions are being asked about the “Religion of Peace”. Ridicule is the necessary next step to unmask the dangerous deception and threat of Islam.
Carol the 1st says
You worry for the boys when you remember what happened at Charlie Hebdo. Hopefully Islam won’t recognize that mockery is taking place.
jewdog says
I liked Robert’s point about the fatuity of always being nice, as though everything, no matter how despicable and threatening, calls for love and forgiveness. Isn’t there something in Deuteronomy about not standing by the blood of one’s brother, or, as Edmund Burke put it: “All that’s necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
Scourge of Cords says
“At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.”
Titus already taught you how to deal with Muslims and the so-called Christians who confront you instead of disgusting, pedophile-worshiping monsters.
Politicianophobia says
I am all in for mocking. Mock, mock and mock some more, some mock, others thigh.
gravenimage says
The devil hates being mocked…
LeftisruiningCanada says
Certainly, mock away.
But let’s not give the other side reason to dismiss our points through bad behavior.
That’s all this is about.
Kirk says
I guess he would say that Jesus was acting in an Un-Christlike manner:
“You brood of vipers!”
“Whitewashed sepulchers!”
“You load people up with burdens and are unwilling to even lift a finger!”
“Oh you of little faith!”
And don’t forget the cleansing of the temple!
Christ differentiates between societal and personal issues. I think people easily confuse the two.
There is such a thing as righteous anger.
“Evil thrives when good men remain silent.”
Wellington says
I have said many times that mocking evil is the next best thing to crushing it.
Islam is evil and it is easily demonstrated that Islam is evil. Two examples that could be given of Islam’s inherently malevolent nature is that it sanctions rape under certain circumstances (“captives of the right hand” to be found in several Suras of the Koran—4,23,33,70) and that it sanctions death for any Muslim who leaves Islam (as evidenced by Sura 4:89 and in the Bukhari Hadith 9.84.57). These two examples alone, the sanctioning of rape and death for apostasy, are enough to look upon Islam as an execrable excuse for a religion.
Therefore mock it and mock it with regularity. In fact, I think it even arguable that to not mock Islam, once one knows what I have just written above, is itself immoral (assuming of course when you do so you are not in personal danger from being harmed or killed by rabid Muslims since self-preservation is a keenly important factor as well).
JawsV says
Mock Islam! Islam deserves to be mocked! A fraud religion!
Rudy says
The Bible teaches us that we should be like the Father, and when reading about the life of Jesus, who is the example of the Father, we don’t read of Him mocking but rather reproving.
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” Matthew 5:48
“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
John 14:9, 10.
“Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:… But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?”
Matthew 23:1, 2, 14-17.
“And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?” Zechariah 3:1, 2.
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2 Timothy 3:16
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Ephesians 5:11.
“But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” Ephesians 5:13.
“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” 2 Timothy 4:2.
Qhtlh says
James White is so typical of the self-appointed “Defenders of Truth.” I’d like to know who many people he has actually led to faith in Christ? He is full of himself. Ignore him. He thrives on seeing his name printed and hearing his name spoken.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The man may well have some issues to do with pride and arrogance. I’ve heard him say so.
Hard to say how many souls anyone leads to Christ, but in the end it may not be about numbers.
I’ve known couples who spent 25 years living in some nasty flesh rotting rain forest, out of touch with all the world but for a group of a couple hundred tribesmen, just so they can learn their unique language, translate the Bible into it, then use it to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to them, all in the hope that some of them will be granted repentance and faith.
25 years and only a few hundred, at most, believers in Christ?
Was that a waste of time? Did the low numbers prove the falsity of their beliefs?
gravenimage says
I take your point, LeftisruiningCanada, and would never consider this a waste of time.
My only serious issue with White is his whitewash of Islam.
LeftisruiningCanada says
Yes, i do grant that he doesn’t speak as plainly as islam deserves, and has downplayed its inherent violence.
A few years back there was more plain speaking.
I’m putting down to having more personal contact with individual muslims, which tends to change how one approaches members of the cult you are dealing with, and that this also ensures his not being shut out of the islamic community.
If your main interest is simply to get access to as many muslims as possible in a setting where they will actually have to sit and listen to you tell them about Jesus (unlike speakers corner for instance), then he really has no choice so far as i can see it.
Im glad we have both the Robert Spencers and the James Whites. They are both serving their purpose from different angles, and do it well i think.
Linda Clark formerly Linnte says
Yes, White does whitewash Islam, but to me, his worst is that he doesn’t trust our Lord to work in others no matter how weird it may seem. Sometimes while carrying on a conversation with Muslims on YouTube, I feel absolutely no unction of the Holy Spirit to me, to speak Jesus to them. Sometimes all I do is carry on a conversation that trys to PROVE, no matter what the Muslim thinks, that Islam is false. My hope for a conversation like this is that the Muslim will stick around long enough making comments, that I get to give him God’s Word.
LeftisruiningCanada says
“he doesn’t trust our Lord to work in others no matter how weird it may seem”
The man is a Calvinist, as has been pointed out by others already.
Perhaps more than any other kind of theology, this view acknowledges God’s utter sovereignty over all things whatsoever that happen in Time, especially over the salvation of His elect people.
Calvinists believe that God regenerates whomsoever His pleases whenever He wishes to do so, usually but not exclusively initiated by a person being exposed to His Word, either written or spoken.
No, i don’t think the objection contains much in the way of being worried about people being turned away from Salvation, at least not in the long run.
From listening to what has been said on the matter, i pretty sure the majority of the controversy comes about because of the insulting behavior that a few of the videos clearly demonstrate. There is also the issue of the sheer grossness contained in some of the videos, and whether or not it is becoming of those who are representatives of Christ.
Personally, i don’t dismiss all of the videos outright, nor every part of those that have problems.
I just cannot say that showing feces covered in blood, loud vomiting, or grown men drinking milk from the breast of a woman is something that highlights the purity and high standards of conduct that we might hope for.
Linda Clark formerly Linnte says
No, the videos surely do not represent the “purity” Christians are supposed to have, but they sure do represent the down right disgusting ideology of Islam. Remember, David and his co-actors are playing MUSLIMS, not Christians. They are acting. I used to tell my kids when they were little, “it’s just a movie”.
LeftisruiningCanada says
The question is, can we as Christians represent the nasty and pornographic ideas that make up islam without stooping to nasty pornographic displays ourselves?
We are still Christians, no matter what filthy set of ideas we are exposing.
Because, and this is key, you can guarantee that muslims will seek every opportunity to claim the moral high ground, especially when confronted with the truth that mohammad taught and practiced degeneracy. Any way they can find to distract from the main point behind the points raised in the videos will be used, and if it’s Christians being gross, all the better for the muslims.
Mary says
Given the content that could have been brought up, these videos are actually quite tame. Take the practice of thighing. Learned about that gem from The Little Green Book. Google “Islam Little Green Book” for a fascinating eye opener.
Carol the 1st says
Yes, Ayatollah Khomeini’s little masterpiece that he carried lovingly to Iran with him in 1979. I guess wonders will never cease!
Carol the 1st says
Somehow I’m sure Islamize Me will skip this particular subject. It’s just too sobering.
LeftisruiningCanada says
It’s a subject that really needs exposure, but i’m not sure if i’d like to see what D Wood and Co would do with in their current mood.
gravenimage says
Well, David Wood has exposed all sorts of Islamic ugliness, both in these satiric “Islamicize Me” series, and also in his more serious videos–including pedophilia in Islam and the terrible rape of little 9-year-old Aisha and, yes, the question of “thighing”:
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2014/03/muhammad-and-thighing-of-aisha.html
LeftisruiningCanada says
Good article, thanks.
Interesting to think about what a country, or even the world, would be like if the only moral teaching around was the life of mohammad…..
Ibrahim itace muhammed says
Devil wood already exposed mithraist christianity to be truely paganic inspired by the Satan in series of debates with Dr shabir Ally from Canada. what is he braging now? . Idiot!!
Carol the 1st says
Here’s a challenge for you Ibby:
James White is supposedly
– well-versed on Trinitarianism and cults
– a successful ‘fisher of men’
Why don’t you go WrassleMania with him? https://www.aomin.org/aoblog/
LeftisruiningCanada says
It would be worth watching.
Then again, i’ve a feeling it would be more like those debates with the Black Hebrew Israelites from 2016 IE. arguing with a brick wall.
gravenimage says
Ibby doesn’t want any Infidel to be able to expose the horrors of Islam.
As for the witless Dr shabir Ally, David Wood regularly wipes the floor with him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21dQBUgSyi4
There are many longer videos if anyone wants to watch them.
WPM says
He is ” braging ” about is written in the Koran doing his best to imitate the most perfect man Mohammed as per what is written in the Koran and instructed in the Hadiths. If you can rebuke what is doing where it is not written in the Koran or how he got the Hadiths wrong? You can call everyone and everything “mithraist” or ” paganic” or any other made up misspelled word you like but you will not address the material you disagree with or show how it is wrong.
WPM says
Do you Ibrahim itface Muhammad
have you own talking backpack that helps you write your post here? Is their no spell check function in it?
gravenimage says
🙂
Savvy Kafir says
Islam must be mocked. It’s been shown FAR too much respect by PC infidels who don’t know the first thing about it. That’s caused Muslims to become even more puffed-up (and disdainful of us) than they normally are. We need to jar them out of that illusion of superiority by laughing at their absurd, barbaric ideology.
Also, mocking Islam will cause many “nice, moderate” Muslims to reveal their true nature — and just maybe some of those PC Friends Of Islam will take notice.
We need to educate the public with thoughtful, well-informed critiques of Islam. But the mockery is also useful. And well-deserved. And long overdue.
Linda says
For 1400 years Muslims have lived in their isolated bubble where Islam is everything to them. They have not been exposed to the progress of civilization for all that time. It’s better that they should be required to come up to speed with us than that we be hurled back to the 7th century to suit them.
PATRICIA FRANCES KOENIG says
I am in favor of mocking Islam. A little humor helps all the information go down, so to speak.
LCW says
One needs to be careful whom they team up with on issues of the Christian faith. I would offer this as something for everyone to think about.
Its been mentioned that Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi is a man with some interesting ties. To help put this in perspective, allow me a moment to tie the lines together.
Qadhi is the Dean of Academic Affairs at the Al-Maghrib Institute. The Institute is an international institution centered out of Houston, TX. He is also someone with whom Dr. James White associates.
I have personally interacted online with some Muslims who have attended this Al-Maghrib Institute. Not too strangely, these individuals share a rather hardline ideology that spawns from its Salafist bent. There is has also been support for Ibn Jibreen, who openly supported Osama bin Laden. Jibreen died in 2009.
I have personally seen Muslims who deem Ali Al-Timmi extol him as one of the top Islamic scholars of our time. Qadhi does also. Ali Al-Tamimi was one of nine members of the Virginia Jihadi Network and named as an unindicted co-conspirator. You can google him for the rest of the story. Suffice it to say we’re not talking about nice people here.
If it paints the picture more clearly, DOAM (Documenting Oppression Against Muslims website) views Tamimi as a victim of our government.
Al-Maghrib Institute is linked to Muslim Matters. This also poses an issue as they wrote a letter of support for Anwar Al-Awlaki (the man who inspired Nidal Hasan) when Awlaki was released from a Yemen prison in 2007. He too, is dead now.
So, you ask, does this mean that Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi is a dangerous man or an Islamist? Well, yes and no. Obviously Qadhi isn’t posting on Facebook or Twitter trying to recruit would-be jihadists. Nobody is saying that. But he does act as a frontline apologist for the notion that the problem with terrorism isn’t Islam. This, of course, makes it possible for those with a terrorist bent to fry their falafel and eat it, too. In other words, they can BE radicals and do radical acts in the name of Islam because, after all, they were provoked.
In 2010 Qadhi wrote an article addressing the problem of young Muslim men getting caught up in terrorist groups. What’s causing all of this, he asks? Qadhi lists several reasons. The first one being external factors, in particular, the unfar way in which our government (post-911) has reacted towards Muslims.
“Post 9/11, our government reacted in ways that has added infinitely more fuel to the fire of extremism (and hence, the rise in radicalism amongst our own Western youth). From the illegal invasion of Iraq to the foolish military endeavors in Afghanistan, from Abu Ghraib to Guantanamo, from Aafia Siddiqui to Ali al-Timimi, from the ‘War on Terror‘ to the ‘Patriot Act’, it became easier to convince an impressionable mind into accepting the West versus Islam paradigm (as if these two entities can be surgically and neatly delineated, separated and defined).”
In other words, the response of the United States to the wholesale slaughter of 3,000 of its citizens was all wrong and is ultimately responsible for the reactions of many Muslims who now support terrorist ideology.
The problem with Qadhi’s assessment is that its right in line with the recommended approaches of the ISIS recruitment manual (and yes, they have one). You have to convince the jihadi would-be recruit that he or she has a responsibility to take up arms against this entity that is responsible for a ton of harm levied on Muslims and Muslim lands. Nevermind that 9-11 happened. The USA started it, along with Israel, and any other country that saw fit to go after Islams bad boys. The rest of that portion of his article reads like a diatribe against the United States and even the liberal media, for reporting on such things as attacks by ISIS in foreign lands and drone strikes by the United States. All of this, he says, are why there’s terrorist attacks on our soil.
Qadhi then goes on to tell us that the internal reasons. But before he illuminates on those, he says: “With regards to the internal factors, it is not likely that a mind well-grounded in authentic texts and traditions will gravitate towards acts of terrorism.”
This goes far to satiate the unlearned who believe that Islam means peace. But it doesn’t even come close to explaining the internal factors that play a role in the problem of young men and women going off to terror class 101.
He then goes on to say how one would be:
“…hard-pressed to find senior clerics, of any theological persuasion, who justify flying planes into building or strapping bombs onto one’s body in order to blow up innocent civilians.”
With all due respect, it only takes one. And besides, Senior Clerics aren’t about to go to prison or kill themselves. Why should they when others will handle those details? Add to that the fact that being a Shaikh basically guarantees Jannah. The only way your Joe Average Muslim can secure a spot is to go jihadi.
There’s another problem with his statement as well: where’s the Senior Clerics list? In nearly every other world religion (or denomination thereof) you can find the official spokesperson or persons. And it’s not the theological apologists and theologians. Its leadership committees, conventions, boards and the like. While they don’t make theological decisions, they do oversee the agreeable moral and ethical approaches of their own group.
In Islam we not only don’t have a list of “Senior Clerics” to go by, we have so many Shaikhs its impossible to keep up. In a way, Shaikhs are like Rabbis. Put three in a room discussin a point and you’ll get 21 opinions (or more). This is why there’s such an over abundance of fatawas.
And don’t even point me in the directin of the Council of Senior Scholars of Saudi Arabia” . We all know that they’re not universally accepted as leadership.
Qadhi then goes on:
“With regards to doctrines, a simplistic, black-and-white understanding of wala wa-l-bara is propagated by the extremists; one that the intellectually-challenged (of the ilk of George W. Bush) would have absolutely no difficulty understanding. ‘You’re either with us or against us’, both Bush and Awlaki pontificate.”
Too bad he doesn’t say what wala wa-l-bara is. It’s a concept of loving and hating for the sake of Allah. It teaches that its okay to hate certain groups of people for who they are. And then he goes on to insult a former President. What message is he sending? He is saying Bush is no different from Awlaki. THE VERY THING THE RADICALS BELIEVE!
Having spent time on the internet watching what these yahoos say and promote, the one thing I’ve heard over and over is that Bush was the real terrorist and it was perfectly okay to terrorize back, and that’s all Awlaki did. In other words: they’re both terrorists. Just one is a good (Robin Hood) terrorist (Awlaki) and the other was a black hatted evil (Sherriff of Terrorham) terrorist in the form of Bush.
Now, the next question is this: Is Dr. James White guilty of supporting Terrorism?
Answer: NO.
Is he guilty of denying the Christian faith?
Answer: NO.
Is he wrong in having dialogues with the man? No. I cannot say he is in error to do so. I myself have had conversations with Muslims and even a radical Shaikh or two. But what I have not done, and will never do, is worry more about the feelings of an Islamic leader or questionable Shaikh over the reputations of my brothers and sisters in Christ.
In my conversations with one Shaikh, I refused to let him insult and malign brothers and sisters. Instead, I took him back to the conversations we had about Christ, salvation, and questions he had and arguments he posed about the faith.
It is not our job to air our grievances with one another in public.
But it is also important to remember this: the Shaikh you’re speaking with- until he comes to Christ- cannot be trusted with your best interest; the best interest of your ministry; and the best interest of your faith. And the moment you forget that is the moment you will see division between yourself and your brothers and sisters in Christ. They will use your ministry against you. Basically, they’ll try to say that, unless you defend them and their feelings, you’re a fraud. Which is the devils ploy to silence you or get you alienated.
I want to say here, this is not a condemnation of James White. I hope it isn’t taken that way. I have a great deal of respect for Dr. White and his achievements. But I also have spent the past four years dealing with the issue of Islamists on the internet and off the internet. And I can say without a shadow of a doubt that what they say to your face and what they say behind your back are two different things:
“We smile in the face of some people although our hearts hate them.” -Quran, Tafsir Ibn Kathir
LeftisruiningCanada says
Excellent summary LCW, thanks for posting that up.
I have the impression the J White is so focused on making openings to preach the Gospel to muslims, that he is perhaps deliberately avoiding looking too closely at any other angle.
Anyway, it sounds like you are familiar with AOmin and that you yourself are engaged in the mission to the muslims.
Christ keep you